Hand in glove

Posted on February 21, 2012 by bobpiper

Next time you hear the Tories talking about Labour being funded by the trade unions…

Via The Green Benches

 

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54 Responses to Hand in glove

  1. Mike Killingworth says:
    February 21, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    The only answer to this is State funding for all parties and a serious cap on private donations, i.e. for groups (whether lobbies, companies or what-have-you) nil and for individuals say £1,000/year.

    Even so, the Chris Huhnes of this world will invest any amount of energy in trying to get around such rules. Indeed, I even wonder whether the law against electoral bribery commands the popular support it did a generation ago.

    Reply
  2. GW says:
    February 21, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Mo wonder the Tories won’t ditch the unHealth Bill. just look at the Bribes they would have to repay !

    GW

    Reply
  3. Gary Elsby says:
    February 22, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Bob, don’t forget the funding of Labour via cash for Peerages.

    Reply
  4. Gary Elsby says:
    February 22, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    No, Guido reckons it was loans offered by rich people that funded Labour, but mysteriously (we will never know) when a donor forgot to collect, he was made a Peer of the Realm.

    I just reckon it was cash for Peerages.

    Reply
  5. Gary Elsby says:
    February 23, 2012 at 10:46 am

    No we are not.
    Guido is a Conservative supporter.
    I am a Socialist.
    You are a member of the Labour Party.

    BIG BIG difference.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 23, 2012 at 12:48 pm

      If you are a socialist, Guido can claim to be one too.

      I am a socialist and a member of the Labour Party, but don’t easily throw my rattle out of the pram. Big difference.

      Reply
  6. Gary Elsby says:
    February 23, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    That is because you have neither had an Elected Mayor in Sandwell or thrown one out of Sandwell and you have done neither with the help of the majority of Sandwell voters.

    When that day comes, you too will walk.
    If you choose to stay, you will be bottle-fed or put on a drip and kept in a corner until you need changing every now and then.

    Reply
  7. Gary Elsby says:
    February 23, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    I can’t remember the dates but I’ll give it a go.
    Labour won the first contest in 2002 but the rules for Mayor differ from normal so the Independents won really.
    “You’ll do as you’re told” he bellowed at Councillors.
    He went quickly.
    Labour won the next time up a few years later after a long and intrusive internal contest from within Labour where the boy from inside an office in…..oh yes…..Sandwell…..won the hustings.
    Hmmm. Uncle Ian’s been busy: One MP, one Mayor, then Tristram (plus a sacked social worker cum Cabinet member with no votes.
    No City Party
    No viable CLPs
    No branches
    500 members walked.
    Again I’ll remind you that those who oppose an Elected Mayor are graded ‘E’.
    The infestation of anger is spreading throughout the area like a wildfire with more talk of “The worst Labour Council ever” (again and again in print…
    All dedicated to Uncle Ian.
    Great fun.
    The timesacle of events unfolded and I think you try to make some case out of it but you will fail because we have no case to answer.
    The timing was Uncle Ian’s and the response is ours.
    The Labour Council in Stoke backtracks on a shutting policy each and ever day because we publicly ridicule them as Uncle Ian’s unelected stooges……..and it sticks like glue.
    Only a total eradication of Labour in Stoke is justified.
    Ignore us at your peril Ed.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 23, 2012 at 6:24 pm

      So, if I understand the timeframes correctly… you were so disgusted by having a Mayor imposed on you in 2002, that you threw your rattle outof the pram walked away in disgust 8 years later! You’re having a laugh!

      On that basis, as we are not even lined up for a Mayor, and then I get an eight year warming up period, I should be ready to throw my rattle by about 2030! I can hardly wait.

      Reply
  8. Gary Elsby says:
    February 24, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Er….no Bob, here you go again.
    We slung out a Mayor but the only alternative on offer was the one you in Sandwell have (courtesy of Blair /Brown). Cameron and Clegg offer something we want.
    Our removed elected mayor apologists then found themselves in a Cabinet full of Mayors/Deputies and cronies.
    No one chose them, no-one wants them and they represent a Labour Party that walked away from them.
    What is it with this Labour Party which supports the unsupported?
    Elected Mayors want public service delivery ended and replaced with private enterprise.
    Such as a world beating elderly care system dropped in favour of a “rat infested urine soaked care home”.
    You won’t believe the dedication we give Uncle Ian and his party of failed elected mayors
    as they attempt to crucify ‘old and frail’ people.
    It took them eight years to get at us and in those eight years they perfected ways of altering the rule book and making us have ‘no aims and values consistent with Labour’ (it’s now in the rule book after eight years).
    Interpret this anyway you like but there are hundreds of us in toke with no aims at all consistent with Labour.
    That’s because we don’t want our elderly people sitting in rat infested urine soaked care homes.
    They even tried to sack teachers for deaf children. They failed.
    Shut childrens centres. They failed.
    They intend a re run of the mayor and I may stand for that job myself.
    You’ll say that I can’t possibly stand because I reject it anyway.
    I say Uncle Ian needs all the publicity I can give him and his rejects and I’ll do my very bestest to pour as much rat infested urine soaked Labour publicity all over the West midlands for him.
    The fun of it all.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 24, 2012 at 10:59 am

      Your “Uncle Ian” must be shaking in his boots at the prospect of a fight to the death with some bloke who couldn’t even win a safe seat in Stoke (lost it to the BNP). Talk about being “savaged by a dead sheep”. And believe me, I have no doubts about your arse-lickin’ ability loyalty to the Blairite cause.

      Reply
  9. Gary Elsby says:
    February 24, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    I’ll remind you again as dementia is a fast growing disease.
    Labour couldn’t get a full panel of candidates because the Mayor was shutting everything down. People bailed out of Labour fast.
    Leaders, Lord Mayors, deputies chairs, all suspended by uncle Ian then expelled.
    I eventually voluteered to stand after 25 years membership.
    Uncle Ian refused to fund the elections, even in BNP strongholds.
    So I funded my own election. Not a penny from Labour.
    I stood a second time, again no funding. I funded it again out of my own pocket.
    I asked for help. None came.

    Here’s the best bit.

    Uncle Ian came on a surprise visit to Stoke to call us all shit.
    What happened next should only be printed after 9pm.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 24, 2012 at 2:14 pm

      Well, perhaps he was right. I’ve fought elections in my Ward for over 25 years, and your ‘Uncle Ian’ has never given me a penny to fight those elections. Our members don’t need Uncle anybody’s money to knock doors and ask the people on the other side of them if they will support the Labour candidate, our fundraising parties don’t invite your relatives to come, our members come, buy raffle tickets, donate prizes and have a bloody good time to boot. The party isn’t about Mayors, council leaders or full time officials, and if you think it is you’re deluded or stupid, or both. The party is about its members and supporters in the community, and if you don’t build either… You’ll make a tit of yourself and lose to the BNP!

      I appreciate Stoke is an entirely different case, but I couldn’t discuss the reasons in case children visit the site.

      Oh, and for your information, dementia is not a disease, fast growing or otherwise.

      Reply
  10. Gary Elsby says:
    February 24, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Again you miss point but I reason you miss it on purpose.
    No-one but no-one (apart from Uncle Ian’s office workers-terry duffy House) would help to promote another of Uncle Ian’s office workers (our Elected Mayor) with his ‘Labour’ agenda.
    Anyone who argued against it was suspended from the party (then expelled).
    I stood on a platform of Labour (Nationally) and the London boot boys came for me.
    From all over Sandwell they came to ‘interview’ me and told me how bad I was.
    They stopped me from ever standing for Labour again.
    Ho hum, I thought.
    Then they found out I was on the Parliamentary panel.
    Funny enough, I TOLD them that they were on it also.
    Ahhhhhhhh…….
    Oddlly enough, they all went for the Stoke Central job (now I was safely removed).
    Then Mandy had them booted off. JOY.
    Then they all agreed with me that the whole shooting match was bent to get me out, Tristram in and the Mayors agenda unchallenged.
    Everyone phoned me to congratulate me on fighting them (in the courts 2014).
    Sandwell, members of the NEC. Unions. journalists members far and wide..etc…

    Keep sucking up Bob and take one for the team but let’s drop the honourable lefty nonsense.
    In the camps they were called Kapka’s.

    Reply
  11. Gary Elsby says:
    February 25, 2012 at 9:44 am

    A MP installed in Stoke is a champion of Elected Mayors.
    Stoke’s Cabinet is full of Mayor’s and Deputies and others without the support of members.
    Opponents are carefully sidelined and disallowed from standing.

    So what?
    The aims and values of Labour are?

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 25, 2012 at 10:39 am

      The aims and values of Labour are? …wrong and misguided in many, many respects, which I have continued to point out for years whilst nitwits like you toed the Blairite line… until they wouldn’t let you on to their table, at which point suddenly, everything Labour became evil. Nothing wrong with a bit of enlightened self-interest though, eh, Mr Elsby? You can masquerade your leaving about being a rage against torture, extraordinary rendition, elected Mayors or any other pathetic excuse, but the reality is, you threw your rattle out of the pram because you were snubbed.

      It is also the only political party aligned and integrally linked to the trade union movement, the largest organisation of the working class.

      Reply
  12. Gary Elsby says:
    February 25, 2012 at 11:15 am

    I think it was Reagan who said:
    “There you go again”.
    I did not leave the Party because I was snubbed.
    I left because the whole Labour Party (UK) was snubbed and to force the issue they suspended my CLP on a blatant lie (court 2014).
    A Lord put his friend up and ‘snubbed’ former NEC members
    All manner of toadies (Uncle Ian’s office boys and girls) jumped in.
    They too were ‘snubbed’
    They too have now left the show.
    Don’t you ever read Private Eye, of which my full and complete story was told (written by a ‘snubbed’ contender TV,Radio,International journalist).
    Bob, TV writers phone me congratulating me on my present course of action.

    Keep sucking up Bob.
    Keep flying the TU flag and say it is all OK for Mandy’s mob to boot the hell out of your party as if it were their plaything.
    We’ll do the fighting for you.

    Reply
    • Gary Elsby says:
      February 25, 2012 at 11:17 am

      PS. Didn’t you read the various Tribune articles championing me?
      Get on your knees for Mandy Bob.

      Reply
      • bobpiper says:
        February 25, 2012 at 11:32 am

        Yes Gary… Everybody loves you, everybody knows you are right. How many votes did you lose by to the BNP?

        Oh yes, I remember, somebody wouldn’t give you any money? You’re just delusional.

        By the way, when are you going to answer those questions about your lies about the EU? You could at least have the grace to apologise for your lies if you aren’t able to come up with the answers.

        (For those who don’t understand Gary’s ‘Mandy’ references, let me explain. Peter Mandelson, a close associate of Gary’s hero Tony Blair, is a good friend of the bloke who was selected to fight the Stoke seat in 2010 that poor Gary had set his heart on. The National Executive decided that Peter’s mate was a better bet as MP than a prize delusional nitwit who thought he was the most admired man in Stoke, if not the whole nation, despite the fact that he couldn’t win a safe seat in the Council elections. Reluctant as I am to give the NEC credit for anything, Gary’s infantile burbling on here demonstrates that occasionally even they get some things right).

        Reply
  13. Johnthestudent says:
    February 25, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Gary, if I resign as a Labour candidate and stand on a ‘Free the Potteries One’ ticket, will you please, please stop commenting on this thread?

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 25, 2012 at 12:51 pm

      Typical Labour running dog lackey trying to silence the one voice of truth speaking out on behalf of the heroic deprived toiling masses of Stoke (which is a place somewhere off the M6 motorway).

      Reply
  14. Gary Elsby says:
    February 26, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Bob, I have no idea of what you ramble about regarding EU questions.
    If I did, I would answer them or pose something you might answer.
    Your EU stance is, in your own words, in agreement with Norman Tebbit.
    If you say so Bob and I’m sure they are all complimentary.
    Regarding the vacancy in Stoke Central, you have me winning the seat.
    Nice, but I only wished to be considered for the vacancy and would have had a hard fight against the big names that preceded my complaints on National TV.
    Only in your mind do you see me complaining of Labour rule breaking and throwing toys out.
    The truth remains the same as always.
    If they (the party of the people, ho ho ho), fix it for rich(never had a job) friends of Peers, the honourable thing to do is walk.
    Keep sucking up Bob.
    PS. I’d have won the selection (that’s why I had to go).
    PS. Offered a safe passage if I backed down from taking them to court.
    Answer: F*** ***.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 26, 2012 at 4:06 pm

      Naughty naughty Gary, don’t compound your lies with more lies.

      I’ll remind you then, but I suspect you will run away again. Here goes.

      You accused me of calling for the abolition of the EU, which is a total lie and I challenge you to show me where.

      You also said I was opposed to the European Union High Representative, which is another lie, as I have never mentioned the position.

      Now, as you say “the truth remains the same as always” have the good grace to apologise for your lies, or crawl back into your hole because you’re not welcome here.

      Reply
  15. Gary Elsby says:
    February 27, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Bob, I do not know what a European High Rrepresentative is.
    If I did, and you wanted the position abolished, I would point it out.
    I have no idea what the posiition is but you go on and on as though I do.

    But why should I answer your questions when you refuse to answer mine that Labour (the party of the working classes and all truthful and honest) allowed the torturing of innocents.
    That’s the accusation and you pay into it.
    Labour-a torturing party-shame on you.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 27, 2012 at 11:11 am

      Well let me refresh your memory. You said I was supporting the Tories who wanted to abolish the EUHR, and that I wanted to abolish the EU. Now, provide the evidence to back up those statements.

      I haven’t refused to answer your questions on Labour being a torturing party. I have asked you to provide evidence that the party has ever tortured anyone (even in Stoke on Trent) and I will quite readily join your chorus of condemnation. But as yet, as so often, you make these ridiculous comments with nothing to support them.

      Reply
  16. Gary Elsby says:
    February 27, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Ahhh. You mean the ECHR. This makes more sense than EUHR which must have been a typo on my part.
    Yes I stand by the claim that if you consistently denigrate the EU and prefer the views of Norman Tebbit likes, then you make a rod for your own back and you will see workers rights demolished.
    That is what they want but have yet to succeed.

    Labour a torturing Party?
    You make great play that the Conservative Party is in Government and you bash them daily.
    The evidence for Labour and torture is as follows:

    CIA 747 Flight N313P in 2002.
    Destination: Washington-Tripoli.
    Destination: Tripoli-unknown destination (secret flight rumoured to be Malaysia).
    Destination: Secret location (reportedly Malaysia)-Tripoli.
    Cargo: Abdelhakim Belhadj/Wife/Children (remember I accused him of being Al-Qaeda)
    Deatained in secret location by British government (Labour) rumoured to be Malaysia.
    Belhadj travelled on a false passport (Morrocan/new name Abdul-Al-Nabi) named by MI6 as being Al-Qaeda terrorist named by Al-Qaeda as Chief operator and head of Libyan International Fighting Group (LIFG)(banned by Britain as being Al-Qaeda front in North Africa.
    Wanted by Colonel Gaddafi for terrorist activities in Libya.
    Deal done by (un-named person) and Sir Mark Allen(Head of MI6 counter terrorism Director)
    Flights landed Belhadj and his family in a British dependent territory in India Ocean/Diego Garcia.
    Belhadje claims torture and Britain complicity in it.
    Belhadje (Al-Qaeda) is the new Military Commander in Tripol after massive air support from Britain and France.
    Belhadje surrounded the Libtyan City of Sirte and demolished it with massive heavy bombardments killing (undisclosed figure 1000s) women and children.
    Homs is in Syria.

    All denied by David Miliband.
    Of course it is all true.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 27, 2012 at 5:33 pm

      Well, if you meant the ECHR, which I fully support and has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, you’re equally wrong… and if you wish to lie, at least try to back it up with some evidence. And you can also tell me where I have ever said the EU should becabolished, because that is also complete bollocks. You talk out of your arse Elsby, and because you THINK something you convert it in your mind in to a fact. You really should get treatment because you’re just delusional.

      As evidenced by your statements on torture… Although actually evidence is the one thing you fail to produce. Belhadj refused to co- operate with an inquiry in to the allegations, so you’re left with a rehash of media speculation which, in the inimitable Elsby delusion, you convert mentally in to the truth.

      Reply
  17. Gary Elsby says:
    February 27, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    Remember Bob, the Labour PM at the time categorically denied such rendition (torture) flights took place when interviewed at a PM select committee.
    Belhadje was hanged by his hands and electrocuted for days on end.
    His wife was pregnant at the time.
    His children were also on the flight.
    Bob, I’ve given you flights, dates, names, PM.
    I like how you defend the indefensible on behalf of the Labour Party.
    It speaks volumes for your loyalty and ability to fight back.

    Remember when I defended Parliament’s right to invade Iraq?

    Toady.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 27, 2012 at 9:33 pm

      I’m not ‘defending’ anything. If you provide evidence… which you patently have not done, other than spread rumours collated from the Daily Mail.

      Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 27, 2012 at 11:43 pm

      Be careful I don’t accuse you of supporting torture, Mr Elsby. Iraqi Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi, hiding out in Kurdistan because Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki wants to arrest him, proclaimed on television that his bodyguards and other employees are being held in secret prisons and tortured. Meanwhile, last month Human Rights Watch said it found a secret prison whose jailers report to al-Maliki’s office. Inside, hundreds of political prisoners, al-Maliki rivals, are “tortured with impunity,” the group said. They’re beaten “hung upside down for hours at a time, administered electric shocks to various body parts including the genitals.” And plastic bags are tied “over their heads until they pass out from asphyxiation.”

      That is the paradise of Iraq you war mongerers helped to create. You should immediately denounce Gary Elsby as an apologist for torturers.

      Reply
  18. Gary Elsby says:
    February 27, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    Bob, don’t shout too loud about defending the EU…….Norman won’t speak to you.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 27, 2012 at 9:45 pm

      As I say, you’re delusional. I haven’t shouted, nor even whispered ‘about defending the EU’ but I won’t ask you to prove it because you are still unable to provide a coherent answer to the other questions I asked you so there’s no point in asking.

      Reply
  19. Gary Elsby says:
    February 28, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Bob….for goodness sakes.
    FLIGHT NUMBER N313P. CIA 747.
    If this was an aircrash investigation we’d have the black box telling us what happened.
    The PM denies it all at a Commons select Committee.

    The problem as I see it is that you make assertions based on no facts whatsoever.
    You rely on pure personal opinion.
    Ok, there is some merit in this as it gives a measure of the man.
    You disagreed with Iraq invasion because you believed that Saddam was telling the truth.
    Fair point, but he failed to prove the destruction of WMD that HE admitted he had.
    Hans Blix delivered a negative response to waepons inspections.
    But I have to repect your opinion and respect your right to ignore a Commons ballot (first ever) on going to war in Iraq.
    Minorities must be heard.
    On the question of torture and rendition, I have a problem with your opinion, as much as I respect your right to ignore torture victims.
    I have given you flight numbers,names, victims, Countries and personal (victim) evidence. I have also named senior Government Politicians who “know nothing” (of course, a visit to the Hague is a definite if proven).
    You don’t get the big picture do you Bob.
    Cameron, Sarkozy and Belhadje surrounded Sirte and killed it.
    Cameron, Sarkozy and others are surrounded by Assad in Homs and he’s killing them.
    So when is an Al-Qaeda terrorist (named by William Hague) not a terrorist.
    When Labour loses power…….silly.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 28, 2012 at 11:52 am

      Cameron, Sarkozy and others are surrounded by Assad in Homs and he’s killing them.

      The world according to Gary… frightening, isn’t it. Get treatment man!

      In short, Gary, you show all the signs of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Go and seek help.

      Reply
      • Gary Elsby says:
        February 28, 2012 at 12:56 pm

        But Bob…………Nato (meaning Cameron and Sarkozy and a bit of USA) funded and armed ‘Rebels’ (Al-Qaeda) and blew away tens of thousands of women and children via total bombardment on the City of Sirte, Libya.
        Two clicks of a mouse button will get you any casualties you want in any war. Try it on Sirte.
        In Homs, it is the Government whom blows away tens of thousands of women and children (SKY news/BBC/ITV etc..)
        No need for the mouse.
        Now run it past everyone again why Labour would apprehend a known International terrorist, render him and his family for torture, and deliver him to a ‘mad dog’ responsible for blowing up a Pan Am flight over Scotland?
        Surely a decent man would give him a gun to blow away civilians?
        Now considering a decent man did give him a gun and he did blow away women and children, we must return to the original claim that Labour wanted him tortured.
        Why?

        Reply
        • bobpiper says:
          February 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm

          Yawn! Gary, you are both mad… and worse still, as boring as a wet Sunday in Stoke.

          Go back to playing with your google.

          Reply
          • Gary Elsby says:
            February 28, 2012 at 2:32 pm

            Bob, Belhadje was taken from Bangkok on 8th March 2004 to Diego Garcia (British). Moussa Koussa, Jack Straw and MI6 appear to be all involved.
            All done two weeks prior to Tony Blair signing the ‘deal in the desert’ in a Libyan tent which saw the Colonel bought ‘back into the International fold’.
            You wanted proof that Labour renditioned for torture.
            I think more evidence will unravel soon.
            Unlike you, I back up my claims.

            Reply
            • bobpiper says:
              February 28, 2012 at 2:42 pm

              And when you do back them up with evidence, other than the fact your mate Tony was attempting to do a deal with Gaddaffi, which is hardly bleeding’ news, perhaps I’ll listen, but twaddle about flight numbers and rumours of this a rumours about that, are not evidence you thick sod! No wonder the voters in Stoke kicked you into touch (oh no, I forgot, no-one gave you any bloody money to knock doors with. What were you going to do… Buy the votes!).

              Reply
  20. Gary Elsby says:
    February 28, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    Bob, the Al-Qaeda terrorist, named by Osama’s number 2 as being the Leader of LIFG in Libya and being on both the CIA and MI6 most wanted list (hows that for evidence!) said:
    “The British Government were complicit in sending me to be tortured by Gaddafi”.

    Do you know what he did for revenge?
    Jeremy Bowen told us then was expelled from Libya (by the BBC) never to return.
    He ski-ed on the Piste for the next 6 Months.

    Bob, your defence of New Labour (note the new) reminds me of me.
    I’d normally ask you to keep up the good work but I know it’s killing you inside anyway.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 28, 2012 at 8:20 pm

      You just don’t get it do you. I’d like to think it was because it was difficult to understand, but I suspect it’s because you’re deeply thick. I’m defending no-one, go back and take a look, but unlike you I don’t take rumours and supposition as if it was fact. There’s only do many ways I can repeat this in the expectation it will eventually penetrate your thick skull.

      Everyone knows your fake morality and angst started the day after you felt shafted in the selection – all the rest is just crap!

      Reply
  21. Gary Elsby says:
    February 29, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Bob, as I’ve already explained time…..and time……again, my political views have not changed one iota.
    My view on political corruption within the Labour Party has.
    I find that unfortunate, but I have personal evidence to prove it.

    Your new found politics (not proven proof unless fully proven via proof) and your new found defence of new Labour (note once again, the new) still reminds me of me, but unfortunately, it does not remind me of the Bob Piper of Sandwell whom always reckoned Tony Blair to be a liar over WMD and Iraq.
    I would assume you have no good words for Alistair Campbell either and any documents he wrote, sexed up or not.
    You see Bob, your new found loyalty doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
    Your new way of looking at things and events must mean an immediate apology for anything Tony Blair, which even public inquiries have failed to land a single blow.
    In my world Bob, innocent until proven guilty means just that.
    For some time now (years) I have witnessed you nail Blair and new Labour on a daily basis and even accused me of being one of them.
    All very untrue.
    But you persist because it suits your “just Labour” (whatever the hell that means) agenda.
    You are not ‘old Labour’, you are not ‘new Labour’, you are just Labour.
    I won’t ask of ‘blue Labour’.
    I paid my annual DD to ‘The Labour Party’ and I received a rule book in return.
    I was sold a dud and I walked.
    New, old, just or blue. I walked because it lied. On the day I left, it lied.
    Previous to that, it did not.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 29, 2012 at 1:57 pm

      Bob Piper of Sandwell whom always reckoned Tony Blair to be a liar over WMD and Iraq.
      Have they found them yet…

      Let’s face it, your view of ‘political corruption’ is wholly and totally based on Gary Elsby not having a chance to contest the nomination for MP. You’re a bloody fraud, and bitter to boot.

      Reply
  22. Gary Elsby says:
    February 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    Saddam Heussein built a nuclear reactor, launched missiles into all surrounding Arab and Israeli countries and was developing a WMD arsenal that he admitted he had.
    When documented (by him) the weapons found did not match what he said he had.
    Hans Blix could not find them and informed the world that he did not have “unfettered access” to all potential hideouts which he (Hans Blix) had identified.
    The answer to your question is and was always going to be, no.
    But still you persist that parliament was wrong in its new found right to veto a PMs decision to go to war.
    You persist.You persist in illegal wars and lies and sexed up documents and anything else the Daily Mail threw at us loyal, yes, loyal Labour Party members.
    Neither old, neither new, just plain old fashioned Labour members fending off the Mail and your friend Norman Tebbit (your EU hero).
    Of course, when a dud rule book is bought into question and it turns out to be a dud with no value whatsoever, then why pay into it?
    Yes, I walked, but then so did 500 others.
    Do you really believe they walked because the dud rule book dented Gary Elsby’s pride?
    Maybe, just maybe, you may come to the conclusion that 10,000 years of membership, loyal to the core, walked away due to the Labour Party itself having “No aims or values consistent with Labour” being about them and not us.
    Only a select few have “no aims……” with the rest just walking and remaining loyal to the core in the process.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      February 29, 2012 at 8:15 pm

      Of course the answer was always going to be ‘no’ you muppet. He never had the WMD, and I was with the 2 million marching against the war whilst you were grovelling to a bunch of Blairite Labour MPs, most of whom were in ‘the government’ so their ‘job’ depended on voting for war and the Tories. At least, unlike you, the Tories weren’t voting for war so that they hoped they would get selected for a safe seat. Your unashamed grovelling is vomit inducing.

      Your second infantile point was about Tebbit. He is no hero of mine, the man’s a shitbag. I happen to think he is correct that a single currency with 23 different finance ministers, and no common fiscal policy, is bloody barmy. A point which is, oh so slowly, dawning on the Germans, French and other EU countries. He also agrees with me and many other people that the EU institutions are undemocratic. Given that they have recently appointed the whole of the Italian Cabinet and its President without a single vote being cast, and replaced much of the Greek Government without an election, seems to be OK with you, but I think it is a nonsense. We will have to disagree on that, but you have a weird concept of heros.

      Of course, you assert, as just one of your persistent lies, that I want the EU abolished, which is complete bollocks, but you wont apologise for your lies.

      The rest of your rant is your usual garbage of self justification, as if people in Stoke give a twopenny toss for your rubbish – they voted for a fascist rather than you!

      Reply
  23. Gary Elsby says:
    March 1, 2012 at 11:39 am

    I wouldn’t know where to start with yet more dubious double standard politics you promote as being honest opinion, but I’ll give it go.

    When Brown ‘replaced’ Blair as Prime Minister, who the hell agreed to that in the UK?
    Ok for Italy and the Greeks to be undemocratically done over, but Labour? That’s OK?
    OMOV I hear everyone say.
    I think I’ve only ever had one vote using that process for a Leader and contrary to your skewed opinion, I did not vote for Blair. But hey, don’t let this fact get in the way of a good blog.

    Bob, there is a single fiscal policy operating in Europe and it has been in existence since Maastricht (good old Maggie, Norman’s friend and friend of Bob).
    The trouble is, everyone ignored it including Gordon(“I’ve eradicated boom and bust”) Brown.
    What they want now is to replace the single fiscal policy with a …..er…..single fiscal policy.
    I’m all for that…….again.
    The Tories don’t want any part of that, they just want to pump ££££££bbbbnnnnssss into the IMF (who then pump it into bailing out Greece) without anyone knowing and allowing all Tories to say “WE WILL BAIL NO-ONE OUT!”.

    Your observation that Labour MPs voted to invade Iraq because they wanted votes is a stunning point to make and sounds exceptionally on the edge of politics. I doubt the National interest and the desire to do good and serve well comes down to that.
    I think I could count on one hand the amount of Stoke Labour members who supported the war.
    I, as having total ambition to seek election on the National stage, declared openly (still do) my support for the right of Parliament (a new right) to decide openly, honestly and fairly, YES or NO.
    Now run it past me again how that was the right thing to do to seek nomination?

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      March 1, 2012 at 4:05 pm

      You are such an idiot that it is really a total waste of my time trying to decipher your nonsense, translate it into English, and then reply, to things which interest no-one other than yourself, that this will be the final time I am replying to your drivel.

      Firstly, Gordon Brown was elected as first Minister in exactly the same way as his predecessors, and his successor, by acclamation of the majority vote of the elected House of Commons affirming an invitation from the Monarch to form a government. Believe it or not, you haven’t been asked to vote for our current Prime either, but he hasn’t been put into office by a panel of European Ministers and financiers.

      There isn’t common fiscal policy across the EU, and your assertion that there has been since Maastricht just exposes your ignorance. Not even the much abused Growth and Stability Pact could even vaguely be described in that way. As I’ve said before, if you don’t know what you are talking about, keep quiet, you’re just making a tit of yourself and wasting my time.

      I’m pleased to read your honesty in admitting you supported the war because you had ambition to seek national office – fine mess that turned out to be. As I say, I’m not debating the rights and wrongs of Iraq with you, we were right, Hussein had no WMD, you, the dodgy dossiers and G W Bush were wrong.

      Bye

      Reply
  24. Gary Elsby says:
    March 1, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Wrong on just about all of it there Bob.
    Brown was installed via a closed shop of Labour MPs who have a bigger percentage of one vote than you have of yours.
    No one voted for Brown, either in the wider Party or in the Country as he went on to spend spend spend.
    A somewhat fiscal policy does exist but it is a gentleman’s agreement to abide by the rule.
    It’s bollocks, we all know that, but handling the ball isn’t allowed either in football unless you are one of 22 keepers on the pitch overseen by blind referee’s. Which is exactly the case in Europe.

    Of course I supported the war.
    I am a man of my word, right or wrong, but I see no evidence the contrary, I only see agitators offering the usual ‘no evidence’.
    Saddam must have been some sucker to admit to owning weapons he never had.
    I had a life-long ambition to seek a poition in Parliament.
    Iraq was but a blip and a twinkle in my eye.
    In your double dimension, dual standards world, it should be odd that a person supporting a war is considered unfit to stand by those who sought friends everywhere.
    But you make a case to fit your argument, regardless.
    You lost every argument going over Iraq.
    Just accept it and come to terms with there being no dishonour in your failing to support your Labour Party which you want to offload onto us.
    What have we done wrong? Why us? Why? Why?

    Reply