Time to trust the people

Posted on December 12, 2011 by bobpiper

There is much to despair about in the coverage in the media this morning in relation to last Friday’s European summit. On the right we have the Mail, Telegraph and the Express with all of their British bulldog bluster, amongst the liberal tendency the Guardian are gung ho for Clegg (again, don’t they ever learn) and we are served up some hand-wringing tripe by Mandelson and Jackie Ashley about ‘anti-Europeans’.
 
It may seem strange to some, but as someone on the left I find I have more in common with this piece by Norman Tebbit than with much of the stuff served up by the media today. Firstly, because Tebbit quite rightly identifies the absurdity of an economic union with a variety of different chief finance ministers with conflicting priorities, and no common fiscal policy, and secondly because as someone who believes in democracy the EU response to the financial crisis is fraught with peril at every turn.
 
Some of the countries busying themselves with cooking up a solution to the problems of the euro zone are not particularly familiar with democratic principles in any event.  Greece may be the ‘birthplace of democracy’ but it is not so long ago it was ruled by a brutal military dictatorship, and Spain and Portugal can readily identify with that, not to mention Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and all the other eastern European states recently emerged from under Soviet hegemony. The way in which democratically elected governments in Greece and Italy were casually disposed of by the EU bureaucrats should have sent shivers down the spine of every democrat in Europe,but it passed with barely a murmur. Not a single Italian Minister has any democratic mandate or legitimacy.
 
I am not ‘anti-Europe’ in Jackie Ashley’s crude shorthand. We are European, by geography and culture. We are trading partners, and in that sense we both need access to each other’s markets. But this new Eurozone superstate is not just about trading relationships, but about controlling a continental European state without the markets having to worry about the vagaries of democracy. It is truly frightening. The economy drives the politics, as any basic reading of Marx will tell you. And when your economy is controlled as tightly as these latest proposals for fiscal and monetary union envisage, by people you never elected and you can not replace, the spiral downwards into a bureaucratic fascism does not seem to be a serious exaggeration. 
 
And who is going to save us? Not Ed Miliband, undecided about whether he is appealing to eurosceptic populism or opposing Cameron for being… errm, eurosceptic . Certainly not Clegg who is welded to this wretched Conservative government because without it he and his party face wipe-out in a general election. And most definitely our Prime Minister, talking tough whilst pandering to xenephobes on his back benches, whilst inwardly wanting to sit at the European diplomatic beanfeast.
 
I fear it is already too late, we havealready gone too far in to this mess without asking for a democratic mandate, but eventually a British Prime Minister is going to have to grow a pair, and put their fate and their faith in the electorate.
 
Only then will they have the confidence to say… ‘Well, this is what you wanted!”
 
 

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

18 Responses to Time to trust the people

  1. Gary Elsby says:
    December 12, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Oh dear.
    Weasel words Bob, made up entirely within the odd left of the left ant EU world you hide in.
    Your mates in the Tory Party and your newest mate Norman must be rubbing their anti working class clean soft hands and drawing you in.
    Yes, all the pub talk is ‘Johnny foreigner’ stuff who can all now f*** *** back home where they belong. I heard this on Friday night and it got a cheer.

    Putting aside all of the Norman garbage, it will not be too long before the attacks start on workers rights and how we can free up trade if union power is dismantled.

    The shite that is anti EU and now has the floor is not at all interested in the economic arguments of house-hold finances taking a severe hit if Toyota, Honda and all of the rest of it ups and f***s off as well.

    Do not kid yourself any longer Bob, that this extremist right wing group that drew you in is soon to be isolated as oing the wrong things even for the Conservative Party (as a whole) itself.
    It is a disgrace to blame the Tory Party and is more correct to blame the extreme fledgling UKIP wantaways on the exttremities of the Tory party.
    That is who Cameron waved his piece of appeasement paper to and they collectively hate the working class.

    Your politics is now exposed Bob as being at odds with the Labour movement as a whole and you should distance yourself from them (your mate Norman) and join us Socialists and Liberals in exposing the absurdity of the Tory Economic plan that has isolated this Island as a non entity.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      December 12, 2011 at 2:18 pm

      You are almost as idiotic as you are illiterate, Elsby, and that nonsense doesn’t warrant reading enough to rip it to shreds, still, it’s nice to see that you and your old friend Baron Mandelson, of Foy in the County of Herefordshire and of Hartlepool in the County of Durham are so close on these matters. If only they had realised you would have happily sold your soul to the New Labour project they may have been kind enough to allow you to peddle your garbage in some no-hope Labour seat.. but somehow, I doubt that even they are that daft.

      Reply
      • Gary Elsby says:
        December 12, 2011 at 3:48 pm

        Oh dear, looks like I hit that one big nerve you carry round on your shoulder.

        You side with Norman Tebbit and william Hague who both know personally the Bullingdon boys wrecking this Country.

        I side with Ed Miliband and Labour.

        …..and you say I am completely wrong.

        Reply
        • bobpiper says:
          December 13, 2011 at 9:54 am

          And Peter Mandelson. Only a fool works to the dictum that his enemies enemy is his friend, but in that respect, you qualify.

          Reply
  2. Brian Hughes says:
    December 12, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Democratically elected governments in Greece and Italy haven’t been “casually disposed of by the EU bureaucrats”. The Italian lady in this rather interesting Radio Three discussion about democracy http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b017t2q7/ tries to explain (at about 3:30) the situation in her country.

    Our lives are ruled to a large degree by undemocratic institutions (and always have been). No one elected the rating agencies, the investment managers or the media barons who seem to wield far more power on our world than any national government (apart perhaps from that of the US, India or China) can.

    The famously faceless EU bureaucrats are answerable to elected representatives in a similar way to British civil servants or council officers. I know as well as you do that often this means in practice that they’re not very answerable but it’s about as good as it’s likely to get.

    I’m disappointed that the trade unions haven’t done more to organise themselves at a European level. There was a monument at Liverpool’s pier head commemorating the first ever cross Europe industrial action but I’m not sure if it’s still there and I can’t recall what the action was. But it was probably also the last cross Europe industrial action at least the last involving anyone from Britain.

    I’m also disappointed that the US has succeeded (often with the assistance of the aforementioned unelected rating agencies, the investment managers or the media barons) in suppressing any European attempts to challenge its laissez faire attitude to, for example, banking regulation. Had we been a bit more united in the EU and listened more closely to the Germans we might have prevented the US’s ‘live now pay later’ form of government from taking such a hold in Europe. Alas for us and our children we have now reached “later”…

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      December 12, 2011 at 2:38 pm

      In Britain the civil service answer to Parliament, although I agree theyare far too often allowed to peddle a civil service agenda. But Parliament writes and passes the laws. In local government it is even more the case. Officers who don’t follow a policy agenda set by councillors either have very weak councillors… or a P45. In Europe the parliamentarians rubber stamp legislation framed and introduced by unelected and unaccountable people in Brussels. To agree the financial nstitutions have far too much power already, but in Britain a sovereign government can set its own interest rates, devalue its currency, use quantative easing and a whole host of other measures for which it has to account back to the electorate.

      See if you get that from the Bundersbank, sorry, European Central Bank.

      Reply
      • Brian Hughes says:
        December 12, 2011 at 3:08 pm

        In Britain a sovereign government can set its own interest rates, devalue its currency, use quantative easing and a whole host of other measures – just as long as the US-dominated financial services industry agrees!

        Reply
        • bobpiper says:
          December 13, 2011 at 9:53 am

          Brian, it’s capitalism, and if you sup with the devil, you need a bloody long spoon. But don’t just think it is the US, these people have no nationality. However, as Brown and Darling demonstrated, there are still choices that democratically elected politicians can take.

          Reply
  3. Methodist Preacher says:
    December 12, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    “In Europe the parliamentarians rubber stamp legislation framed and introduced by unelected and unaccountable people in Brussels.”
    With respect Bob you are wrong on this point. Legislation at an EU level is complex and unelected officials are involved. But the European Parliament undertakes a thorough scrutiny of all legislation and major changes can and are made. During the period 1994-99 I had the best voting record in the Parliament and I can assure you that I never felt I was a “rubber stamp” -often voting against measures which did not feel were in the interests of my constituents.
    There are many important issues that need to be discussed in the light of recent events but I feel that we need to ensure we don’t play into the hands of the eurosceptic right. It is very noticable that when Tories speak about “repatriating powers” they always focus on that legislation that seeks to create equal working conditions across the EU – heatlh and safety, working hours and so forth.
    Just one other point: national parliaments do get the oportunity to see proposed legislastion in advance. Some parliaments take this responsiblity seriously, sadly I never found this to be the case with the houses of parliament with their 1800 strong joint membership.

    Reply
  4. Gary Elsby says:
    December 14, 2011 at 11:47 am

    “A sovereign Government can…….”

    Bob, considering that the going rate is £50bn(QE) per 0.5% interest level, could you please inform the blog at what level the current “Sovereign” Interest rate is in the UK?

    Is the figure £200bn of our free money Labour pumped into a black hole?

    Notice how people supporting Dave are called ‘no mates’?

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      December 14, 2011 at 11:51 am

      Gary, please stop trying to prove that in addition to being a literary illiterate and a political ignoramus, you are also an economic illiterate. It is embarrassing to witness. Stick to your childish jokes. They aren’t funny, but don’t make you look such an idiot.

      Reply
  5. Gary Elsby says:
    December 14, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Bob, who is the clown here?
    You stick to the unenviable and silly stance of anti Labour and anti EU but forward an argument of pro Labour and anti EU.
    The conundrum of politics you sign up to is an impossiblity in fact.
    It doesn’t exist, in a word.
    The sovereignty you cling to is a myth and the interest rate of -2% (minus two) is a real one masked by the nonsense of sovereign QE.
    In reality, the banks should charge us 2% for keeping our money in their banks but do not do so because Brown gave them £200bn to keep them quiet.
    The treuth is that Brown (and Cameron) know that some of our banks are all but bust, but it is a closely guarded secret to which one’s (Barclays?, Nat West?).
    The gag is giving £bns to the IMF (to give back to France etc…an illegal act) to prop up failed economies.
    You haven’t a clue to what is really going on but it is noticeable that your anti EU rants coincide with big business Directors (who you unbelievably go on about as running a bosses charter in the EU….duh) and for some ungodly reason wish the EU project to be dismantled on behalf of the ‘workers’.

    Total bollocks and rhymes only with the local nuts in my club who love the Tories kicking the hell out of Germans (now go ask them about Cameron dropping their wives NHS pay).
    Us Socialists don’t reckon too much of your crazed views on Europe.
    Please refrain from drinking too much before blogging.

    Reply
    • bobpiper says:
      December 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm

      Thank you for today’s dose of total gibberish from Gary Elsby, MP for the saloon bar at the Nags Head. I won’t bother to comment because to be blunt, I couldn’t be arsed to read it.

      Reply
  6. Gary Elsby says:
    December 14, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    How many people do you reckon actually believe you haven’t read it?

    Reply
  7. Gary Elsby says:
    December 15, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Bob, did you see your anti EU mates on Question time?
    Lord NEXT from the NEXT Empire going on about all these Johnny foreigners and all the uneccessary workplace rules that now need getting rid of?

    In your topsy turvy world you’ll disagree with him on half of it as you agree with half of Labour and your confession of agreeing with half of Tories (the t**t half).

    Get on board Bob, the only half that is no good of anything is the corrupt half.
    You didn’t read this either did you.

    Reply