I note that as usual Iain Dale plunges in with his size 11′s with a typically right-wing slobbering Pavlovian response to a Mail on Sunday story about a teacher who was allegedly sacked for praying for a sick child.
“One rule for Christians….” squawks Dale, before inviting you to speculate about whether a Muslim would have been sacked for offering prayers for a sick child. Well, equally, I’ll ask you to speculate on the hysterical response the Mail on Sunday would have come out with if that had been the situation. “Muslims push their propaganda on sick child” anyone? And of course, Dale would have plunged in right behind the hysteria.
Naturally, the Mail on Sunday are reluctant to point out until you get near to the end of the piece that the woman who was sacked… doesn’t appear to have actually been sacked at all. When we finally get to the final paragraphs of the piece, we discover…
Nick Yates, a spokesman for North Somerset Council, said: ‘Olive Jones has worked as a supply teacher, working with the North Somerset Tuition service. A complaint has been made by a parent regarding Olive. This complaint is being investigated.
‘To complete the investigation we need to speak to Olive and we have offered her a number of dates so this can happen. At the moment we are waiting for her to let us know which date is convenient for her.’
I see. So the real scandal here is that an employer has received a complaint from a parent about a teacher… and, disgrace upon disgrace… the employer wants to investigate the complaint, and would like to talk to the teacher concerned.
Well, far be it for me to defend the (Conservative controlled) Council in question from an outburst by one of their own party attack dogs… but that doesn’t seem to be entirely unreasonable.
Update:I see North Somerset Conservative councillor Jeremy Blatchford, who is in charge of education, told the Evening Post Mrs Jones had not been sacked, as had been reported elsewhere.
He said: “She has been invited to a meeting, which for good reason, she has been unable to attend.”
No doubt those who jumped down the council’s throats with such fake angst will now add their apologies. Breath will not be held.
Oh come on! The Labour party is hell bent on destroying anything to do with this country’s culture and religion. You won’t be content until you have denuded every English person of their nationality, degraded their religion and criminalised the decent hard working citizens of this country. You and your party are a disgrace and I cannot wait to see you all dragged through the mud at the next election. In fact, with the destruction you’ve inflicted on this country, you all ought to be swinging from the gallows for treason but oh, I forgot. One of the first things Blair did was abolish the Treason Act. I wonder why.
Bob I never leave abusive comments on blogs, but I’m very close to it now. If you read the article properly you will find that she was in fact sacked and that only changed when her lawyers became involved. The management back-peddled when they realised they had gone too far. From the article:
Mrs Jones was then called in by her managers who, she says, told her that sharing her faith with a child could be deemed to be bullying and informed her that her services were no longer required
‘Karen then said I had been an exemplary maths teacher, but my services were no longer required. As I had no contract, they could tell me to go just like that.
‘They also told me that had I been on a contract, I could be facing disciplinary proceedings. But they never told me the grounds for that.’
Bob, your post is an embarrassment.
Kim Gandy, you are an idiot of the highest order. It isn’t the Labour Government… it is a conservative controlled Council, you muppet.
Steve, I have no such compunctions about calling fools, fools, but since you were able to control yourself, I’ll do you the service of replying. However, like Iain Dale, you accept entirely Mrs Jones’ story… as interpreted by the Daily Heil. The authority haven’t been able to tell her whether she would be disciplined, nor on what grounds… because they haven’t spoken to her. That’s what “the complaint is being investigated” actually means.
I wonder… why have you chose to believe the Mail and Mrs Jones as opposed to the Tory controlled Council?
My word, Councillor, you’re awfuly good at that back-peddling lark, have you ever thought of doing it on ice?
Duffy… your dementia seems to be taking hold. You should find, if you read slowly and carefully, that I haven’t taken back one word, nor back-peddled one inch.
Is this the best your creative juices can squirt out these days? You get sillier and sillier with every passing comment. You can get drugs you know… or, on second thoughts, perhaps you are already taking them.
Bob, please don’t use dementia as a term of abuse. I realise that you have probably had to sort through plenty of abusive responses from Iain Dale’s fanboys, but still.
As for Duffers: an old man picking a fight with us young ‘uns.
Typical Daily Heil reader, reads title and the first three paragraphs and then stops reading before his anger overtakes him. The PC police and femi-nazis should take pity on Duff and send him to the Harriet Harperson anger management institute, not that he would like it capital punishment is more to his liking.
I never realised there were people who still believe what they read in the Mail. Seriously, if the Daily Mail published an article stating that the Earth went round the Sun, I’d want to second source it before giving any credence to that rag. Having said that, the TV Guide is usually pretty accurate.
Steve, supply teachers are like all the other people working on short term contracts in this country. You don’t sack them, you just don’t renew their contract. Actually the contract is with an agency (typically someone like Crapita) and if the Head Teacher or the Board of Governors don’t want to use the services of specific supply staff, they simply ask the agency for someone else. As for the disciplinary stuff a permanent member of staff might, and I use the word advisedly, face them after an investigation. Any complaint by a parent or guardian made against a permanent member of staff has to be investigated. But, and I speak from experience here, it is damn near impossible to sack a teacher for anything less than physical or sexual abuse against a pupil. In church schools, which have an additional layer of standards of conduct, the path to dismissal is long and painful.
Still, some people – and I’m looking at you Gandy – believe what they want to believe, and sod reality.
Oooooooh! Did Aston Villa lose this weekend?
Duffers… no… won, yet again!
David O’K… You’re right. It isn’t funny.
To the first comment on here, Its not government who are diminishing the Church, its society as a whole and its something that has been going on for decades. People are making up their own minds about religion and it is just not for the many. If you closely take a look at the Labour party it is closer to the Christian belief in sharing and acting as a community for all than the individualistic, grab all you can, dog eat dog mantra of the Tories. Tony Blair was probably one of the most religious PM we have had in decades.
Steve, I think your first point is correct, Britain is moving towards being a post-Christian country, I think that is fairly well established.
I don’t agree with the Tony Blair bit though, his government was one of the most least Church friendly governments in living memory. The argument that Christianity is becoming the only unacceptable religion in the UK seems to have some merit*.
TB may be a ‘cultural’ Christian, in the same way Dawkins once professed to be the same, but I imagine that’s about it!
*Not a comment of the veracity of the the Mail’s story!
Dale really is a sucker for jumping straight into Daily Wail indignation without engaging his pea brain.You’d have thought he’d have learned his lesson by now.Can’t wait for him to become an MP, the guy is going to be the gift that keeps on giving to Labour.
I am neither Tory nor Labour and I don’t see this as a party political issue.
However as with any other reasonable person I fully support Bob Piper on this.
If any other religion had been involved there would have been an almighty outcry.
The teacher knew the rules and should have followed them.
Children go to be school to be educated and not to be brainwashed by individuals with particular views.
The parents had every right to complain.
However I do not believe that this should be a sacking offence and the Teacher should be warned not to do it again.
Iain Dale is a chump. This is not down to the Govt or even the local Tory Council. Schools are locally managed on such matters. If there has been a mistake it is owned in the first instance by the school. But prosletysing, if that’s what has happened, can be pretty hateful. Clearly there is no point whatsoever in relying on anything in the Mail. They print crap all the time. Even when they know it is. Dale-Mail inter-changeable in that regard.
Personally, it wouldn’t bother me in te slightest if anyone of any religion offered my kids a prayer. It does no harm.
I find this statement strange though “For a fundamental and irreversible shift in the balance of power and wealth in favour of working people and their families” how does that work under your parties policy of open door immigration? how does that work under the current voting system.
Personally, it wouldn’t bother me if anyone offered you a prayer either, but frankly, what the bloody hell has that got to do with anything? I’ve searched through the story and I can’t find you or your sprogs mentioned anywhere, so whether you are prayed for or not is, well, to be honest, irrelevant.
I’m sorry you can’t understand the phrase, but you clearly don’t understand Labour’s immigration policy either… nor what the voting system has got to do with economic policy. How old are you Master Ellis? Have you not done these things at school yet? Perhaps I should e-mail you with a book list to get you started.
>TB may be a ‘cultural’ Christian, in the same way Dawkins once professed to be the same, but I imagine that’s about it!
Umm, two points here. Firstly this is the same Tony Blair who recently publicly converted to Catholicism, right? And secondly, as far as I’m aware, Dawkins still refers to himself as ‘culturally Christian’. One goes to church and attends mass, the other writes books about how religion is silly.
On topic – there was recently a study into the ‘power of prayer’. There were different groups of sick people compared. The ones who were not prayed for had the about same chance of survival as those who were, although if patients knew about the prayers, they did worse. Offering to pray for someone may give the impression that you think they are likely to die, which is actually far from comforting.
Besides, she did more than that, she was proselytising in the girl’s house. I wonder if the family’s side of the story is much different from the impression given by the Mail article…
Danivon,
Yes, the same TB who converted to Catholicism.
Also the same TB who recently admitted that he would have used any old reason to invade Iraq.
Converting to his wife’s religious observances doesn’t necessarily make him a Christian, if we use their own definition (by their Deeds you will know them, or something).
Re: Dawkins. I knew I had read that quote once, but didn’t know how old it was or whether he still held the same view. Like you I assumed he did, but I thought I’d hedge my statement a little.
Your comment perfectly illustrates what I meant. Both describe themselves to some degree as a Christian, yet Dawkins doesn’t hold to fundamental Christian beliefs (as TB doesn’t, at least wholly). Just because you give yourself a label, doesn’t necessarily make it so. Didn’t Blair claim to be a Socialist, too?
The OED definition of bullying is to “frighten – someone – into doing something”. Most working people – in whose name you claim to speak -in this country can tell the difference between the bullied & the bullies. We all know that your party has happily bullied its way through a host of public spirited whistle-blowers, war protesters, country side lovers, gentle Christian folk (not believers in violence by the way)or any one “off message”. So now it’s your time to lose your job & God speed!!
Bob is often the subject of prayer from his many Christian friends in Bearwood. Happy Christmas
I suppose I am the rogue here because some of my staff acted.
May we get this right. Mrs Jones is not stopped from asking a family if she can pray for their child. What is wrong is that when the family said NO. According to their story she continued and virtually forced her version of the Christian faith down their throats.
I have no idea if this is true because Mrs Jones has chosen not to attend a discussion with her Assistant Director who is a strong practising Christian right down to the silver fish in his jacket lapel.
We have to be correct here. Many members of one Christian denominations may be unacceptable to another when it comes to prayer. I have on my work list a case where a so called Christian church is complaining because Christian schools will not them use their church school hall. The opponents are the Methodists, Church of England and Roman Catholics for starters. i have continual problems with some of the Christian Right because I happen to be re-married. I also happen to stand for things they oppose. PLEASE the label Christian is freely used and some groups oppose each other.
I have mail from councillors and staff who are asking why Mrs Jones is using faith to avoid a personnel disciplinary action and is refusing to cooperate.
It is possible Mrs Jones has acted correctly. My problem is that I have a witnessed complaint against her and she refuses to discuss it.
For the record we have many faith schools, are fighting developers to ensure a fair ratio of faith to community schools in major areas.
developments
This issue was known to other national newspapers who refused to run the story. It is up to your readers to say what they feel. I find faith has little or nothing to do with party politics. Did I add that I am a Christian? no but I am. What would Mrs Jones have said if it were a child of hers and the teachers were Jewish, Moslem, Hindu or Zoroastrian? What is she were a United Reform Church and the teacher a traditional Roman Catholic?