How vomit inducing it is to hear the hushed tones on Murdoch’s Sky News as they talk reverentially about the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster tomorrow.
They mention the desire for justice by the relatives of the 96 dead, and talk about the lighting of candles on the kop at Anfield tomorrow, without the slightest hint of embarrassment about the despicable slurs plastered all over the front page of Murdoch’s Sun in the aftermath of the tragedy. And tomorrow Murdoch’s Sky TV will cover the memorial service, and then they are broadcasting a documentary all about the disaster. No doubt we will be treated to scarves tied to the Shankly Gates, candles lit at the shrine, and heavenly choirs singing celestial versions of ‘You’ll never walk alone’.
What I don’t suppose we will get will be a contribution from that loathsome toad Kelvin McKenzie, who continued to be employed as the Sun’s editor by Murdoch for another five years after he published blatant lies about Liverpool fans behaviour in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. He accused them of urinating on the police, stealing from the dead and beating up the police who were assisting the dying. McKenzie says he only issued an apology because he was ordered to in case it affected sales, and he still proclaims his lies were… the truth.
Murdoch’s Sun needn’t lecture anyone about smears.
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I’ve never bought the rag, I remember what it had to say over the miners strikes.
Well, of course, the crowd behaved impeccably. Scousers, gentlemen to a man, stood back and invited the ladies and the children to precede them and then tossed coins with each other to see who should enter first. Yes, yes, I know a hundred people were crushed to death but it couldn’t have had anything to do with the crowd – it’s a mystery, really it is!
It isn’t a mystery at all, Duffers. The Taylor Inquiry quite firmly established that the behaviour of the crowd had little to do with it, other than arriving late at the ground. And even a large amount of that was attributed to roadworks on the motorway. What Taylor did find was poor ground design, inadequate stewarding, shocking policing decisions, and a stupid failure to delay the kick off.
But don’t let the facts ruin your stupidity.
Thanks for publishing this Bob. Too many people are ignorant of the facts surrounding Hillsborough. The lies spread by The Sun were perpetrated from anonymous high ranking police officers and a Tory MP who was not even present at the game that day.
Hillsborough Stadium itself had previous. The FA Cup semi-final of 1981 between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolves had seen 38 people injured when the late arrival of Spurs fans at the Leppings Lane End after bad traffic on the M1 had led to a terrifying crush. Hillsborough was ignored by the FA to host semi-finals for another six years, only being allowed to re-stage such games by the FA after the terrace was restructured into five pens stretching behind the goal. In 1989 there was no police nor stewards marshaling fans away from the central pens. John Motson commented on BBC TV about the lack of fans in the flanking pens before the horrors unfolded.
David Duff, If ever there was a case against the dangers of inbreeding…. You eagerly demonstrate your stupidity by regularly commenting about everything but never adding anything of worth. In your case ignorance is bliss.
For anybody else interested enough there’s a recent Radio 5 production available at BBC iPlayer Hillsborough Stories where survivors and parents of the bereaved tell their stories.
Duff is not stupid, he is being ignorant. Like many who share his view about Hillsborough; they select the facts that fit their case and ignore those that don’t.
The only thing I would say to him is would he dare say such things to the survivors?
No surprise that you hate scousers, I would be offended, but you just about hate everything and everyone.
Great site and I am really pleased to see you have what I am actually looking for here and this post is exactly what I am interested in. I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor
“What Taylor did find was poor ground design, inadequate stewarding, shocking policing decisions, and a stupid failure to delay the kick off.”
I see! So no-one had had a drink or three, and no-one tried to push their way in. It was just a large, friendly crowd of English gentlemen who were . . . what? Startled by the sight of a lonely steward? Panicked by a nasty policeman? And the tens of thousands who had arrived on time, not having stayed too long in the pub, were to be kept waiting whilst the recalcitrants caught up.
It never ceases to amaze me the way in which the Great British Public must, absolutely must, have someone else to blame. Never, under any circumstances, must they be allowed to even consider their own personal responsibility for actions they took. In this, of course, they are pandered to by crafty politicians eager to keep on the right side.
It reminds me if that old philosophical conundrum concerning a hammer, a nut and an anvil. Who is to blame for the crushed nut, the hammer? Oh dear me no, it was ‘the anvil wot done it’!
Duffy, you are just underlining your stupidity. Stop digging.
Lots of people went to football matches last weekend. Lots of them had a drink or three before they went in. Lots of them arrived late at the ground. Strangely, none of them died. If Lord Chief Justice Taylor didn’t find these things to be the causes of the tragedy… but did lay ‘blame’ if that is the word you want to use, on the other inadequacies, why are you backing up the words of the bloated fool McKenzie?
Tell me… what was the last major football match you attended?
To answer your question first – at least 20 years ago, to watch Wycombe play Wolves. An attractive stadium inthat you could see green fields beyond the stands. A friendly, leisurely crowd who behaved impeccably.
Now, a question for you. Does a large-ish minority of Liverpool supporters have previous? I mean, when considering the guilt? responsibility? by some rascal it is usual to to take into account any other offences of a similar type. Now remind me, who was it who managed to get English football banned from Europe – and why?
Duffy, does that mean the police incompetence and callous behaviour at Hillsborough proves beyond doubt their incompetence and callous behaviour at the G20 demonstration? I suppose the lies they told after both events must make it so. Previous… as you say.
It’s an interesting way of looking at things.
No-one said anything about ‘proof beyond doubt’ – you really must curb your tendency to exaggeration, Councillor. However, the continued failure of our police forces in several aspects of their duties is indeed an indication that something is wrong. Now, come on, stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, and all that sort of thing, and take a long, hard look at the changing behaviour of football fans in general over the last 30 years, and Liverpool fans in particular. By way of comparison, you might care to remember that in 1939 just over 118,000 people attended a match at Ibrox. No one died!
I doubt if anyone has ever suggested that the behaviour of football fans has not changed over the last 30 years, and presumably, as Liverpool fans are not actually a seperate species, their behaviour will have changed to. You really do need to curb your tendency to talk complete tosh, Duffers.
In 1971 though, 66 people died, crushed to death in a crowd in a badly designed stadium, at… errm… Ibrox Park. But I’m sure there are some pond life out there who try to suggest it was because they had been drinking and that they urinated on the police, etc, etc… because there always will be.
However, they are usually the kind of people who have no experience or knowledge of the game or what they are talking about.
I don’t suppose it occurs to you that it is the relatives of the dead who are demanding an inquiry… and the police and football authorities who have repeatedly opposed that. I wonder why they would do that if they knew the fans themselves were to blame.
If you were to extract your head from your anus long enough, even you would be able to work it out.
Bob,
Great little torch in the darkness (sorry to have to use Tory parties old iconography for this description!). As to Young Mr Duff, leave him be, he seems to have misunderstood that reiterating a point ad infinitum does not necessarily make it correct. It’s as impossible as debating a creationist.
Thank you for your powerful post, Bob. I’m disappointed that someone has used it as an opportunity to repeat lies and fear that justice won’t be done until the truth wins http://blog.matthewcain.co.uk/hillsborough-justice-must-be-serve/
David Duff, if you have any interest in the truth or any respect for the victims, please take a look at this site which addresses the facts behind the issues that you raise. http://www.hfdinfo.com/
“Young Mr Duff”!
Love it! Can’t remember the last time I was called that.
I am happy to consider the manifold faults of anyone, or any organisation, involved if, but only if, anyone is prepared to admit that part of the cause of the tragedy stemmed from the misbehaviour of a section of the crowd who were almost entirely Liverpool supporters. If you are not prepared to do that then please tell me who pushed from the back?
True to form, our host, in his eagerness, trod in the dogpile I left for him. Yes, Councillor, I know all about the incident in 1971 at Ibrox and it was an early indication, and warning, of the rot that had begun to set in amongst football crowds in comparison to their self-discipline in 1939. I repeat, 118,000 fans attended a match and no-one was crushed to death!
I do have thoughts on both sides of the fence. I’m from Sheffield, was around in the pubs in the north of the city on that day and yes, there were lots of fans, pissed up fans, without tickets whose objective was to do a liverpool, and if you don’t know what that means, you don’t know football. I have family who lived opposite the ground and saw what happened outside. Fans turning up, rushing the turnstiles, rushing the gates, fighting forest fans, fighting amongst themselves. he family was only interviewed once by the police, in a perfunctory manner and never asked for theirview again.
A question for some. If this match was all ticket, as it was, why a crush to get in. I understand the issues around pens and crowds outside but if all had tickets, then all would have got in.
I feel for those who died on that day, but only when the Liverpool fans acknowledge that they had a number of fans who contributed to the tragedy will this go away.
Another point….why no big coverage of the Bradford disaster.
I think your last point is interesting, Steve, (although why the ‘facts’ you mention in your earlier paragraph didn’t emerge from a public inquiry that was almost designed to find as little fault with the authorities as possible remains a mystery). But at least you give the impression of knowing something you are talking about, rather than just being a survivor the great Wycombe Wanderers – Wolves clash.
I agree about Bradford also being a terrible tragedy. Perhaps the difference was that at Bradford there wasn’t a cover-up, and therefore few apologists like Duff making excuses for the police. There was also closure for the families, and so a ‘Justice’ campaign for the Bradford victims hasn’t been necessary. It was an horrific occasion though, (and it would have been worse in the same fences had penned people in to the fire. Hillsborough was the biggest sporting tragedy in British history, I think, and on that basis the sheer scale of it also counts. But the importance of the event – any event – is often determined by the media, and the lads and lassies at Hillsborough died in front of the nation, on their TV screens.
Other than in Duffy’s mind, no-one has to my knowledge ever tried to deny there were some Liverpool supporters who had drunk too much. Nor portray them as angels. The sort of ‘trouble’ you describe happened at virtually every game in the 70′s and 80′s… but it didn’t lead to dozens of people being crushed to death. To suggest they were responsible defies all reports from the ground… other than those from the loathsome Mckenzie.
“I am happy to consider the manifold faults of anyone, or any organisation, involved if, but only if, anyone is prepared to admit that part of the cause of the tragedy stemmed from the misbehaviour of a section of the crowd who were almost entirely Liverpool supporters. If you are not prepared to do that then please tell me who pushed from the back?”
Duff, your first contribution to this thread to proves that this is a lie.
Steve: There was a crush to get in because many fans did not want to miss the kick-off, if the police had delayed the kick off, maybe things would have been different.
Sadly steve, I do know what you mean when you raise the issue of doing a liverpool, it came back with a vengenance in Athens 2007; and Phil Hammond of the Hillsbourough family support group did condemn it. It played a part no doubt, but the police failed to contain and control the situation and then lied to save their skins.
I agree in essence Bob, but I do need need to question your last statement.
The fans who turned up late, by and for whatever means, tickets or not did have some factor in what happened…it is that that sticks in the craw of us Sheffield folk. I’m a blade so hold no love for the wreck that is Hillsborough but the fact remains, if fans had not rushed the gates, rushed the turnstiles, there would not have been the fatalities. Stand up Liverpool, accept that fact and move on.
I spent the late 70s and 80s visiting grounds all over the country, arriving early late and didn’t see too much trouble before matches outside the ground. After, yes, it was carnage.
Steve, I can only echo David O’Keefe’s last paragraph. This comes up time and time again. No-one doubts the late arrivals, nor the pushing (although there was no organised queuing to the Leppings Lane turnstiles, and the police decision to stop and search everyone was crass in the circumstances) but this should not be allowed to let the police and football authorities off the hook.
Bob
I’m not trying to take responsibility off the police and football authorities, merely pointing out that this situation, in part was caused by a number of liverpool fans who arrived late, causing a crowd/crush, being aggressive and wanting access to the match. Not all these were delayed on the M62, tough some may have been. I watched over 30 coaches leave from pub car parks and pass me at 2.30, and I only live 15 mins from Hillsborough.
I repeat, I do not wish to absolve those who are responsible, rather that the full story be acknowledged.
“True to form, our host, in his eagerness, trod in the dogpile I left for him. Yes, Councillor, I know all about the incident in 1971 at Ibrox and it was an early indication, and warning, of the rot that had begun to set in amongst football crowds in comparison to their self-discipline in 1939. I repeat, 118,000 fans attended a match and no-one was crushed to death!”
You are a sick and blinkered old goat Mr Duff. Your “cunning trap” was nothing of the sort – rather the illusion of your own pre-conceived view. You should perhaps research your facts before you spread your evil lies in future.
Actually, Ibrox 1971 was not an early indication, and warning, of the rot that had begun to set in amongst football crowds as you state. The death of 66 Rangers fans in 1971 was due to to the collapse of barriers on a stairway resulting in a huge pile up of spectators as they were leaving the ground. Inappropriate crowd behaviour was not to blame.
Why was no one crushed in 1939 when 118,000 people attended the Ibrox derby? A great deal of luck possibly but probably because there were no fences or pens or barriers in those days. Remember the White Horse Final at Wembley in 1923 when 200,000 people squeezed into a stadium built to house 120,000 supporters. Fans were literally standing on the touchline and kick off was delayed for 44 minutes. If Wembley had fences then, no doubt it would have been a far different, sadder story to tell.
What is it with you that you seem to think football fans in general and liverpudians to a man are thuggish, unruly, pissed up yobs? May I suggest you proclaim your bigoted views on your own less than spectacular, self indulgent blog. Good riddance to you.
Well, working backwards, let me start with Declan’s last comment. The fact that no-one died in those pre-war matches even when the crowds were twice, thrice, or more, in number than today, was nothing to do with luck but everything to do with a society in which people behaved with moderation and civility. Neither of those two words would apply to large segments of many team supporters 20 years ago, even less these days.
Councillor Piper and his supporters are merely the last in a tediously long queue of this, that or the other ‘support groups’ (or whatever) who never stop agitating for this or that enquiry to be re-opened because the first one failed to bring in the verdict they demanded!
Even so, at least I have succeeded in forcing, through his gritted teeth, a grudging admission from the Councillor that booze, lateness and pushing was a factor. You would never guess it from his tirade against ‘The Sun’.
You haven’t ‘forced a grudging admission’, because it is well known and well documented. I wouldn’t need to get the information from some fat-arsed trollop who knows sweet FA about the incidents leading up to the tragedy.
What is almost universally recognised, other than by a few puddled buggers like yourself and the police and officials who were actually responsible, is that the ‘pushing, booze and lateness’ did not cause the deaths of 96 people. The indolence, inaction and plain stupidity of the police and officials did, however.
Now, why don’t you just admit it. You have no real experience of football crowds now, nor 20 years ago, and you are talking out of your rectum. I appreciate, from your comments on here, and the droning drivel on your own lightly read blog (JuliaM and a couple of other daft sods) that talking out of that orifice is the usual state of affairs… but pretending you know something when you clearly do not, just makes you appear a prat.
The overwhelming consensus of legal and journalistic opinion has been that The Taylor Report exonerated the Liverpool fans present that day. Whilst he acknowledged the existence of a drunken minority he decided that they “aggravated” rather than caused the situation. In other words, the Hillsborough disaster happened in spite of and not because of their actions. Therefore, the theory of drunken, ticketless fans causing Hillsborough was and remains a myth.
In relation to the late arrival of fans, Taylor acknowledged that a large build up of fans took place between 14:30 and 14:40 but questioned whether this amounted to their being “late”, since their tickets required them to take their place 15 minutes before the match and they were therefore complying with this requirement. The problem was that Lepping’s Lane was a bottleneck and required careful police control – something absent on that date.
David,
“Well, working backwards, let me start with Declan’s last comment. The fact that no-one died in those pre-war matches even when the crowds were twice, thrice, or more, in number than today, was nothing to do with luck but everything to do with a society in which people behaved with moderation and civility.”
…and you would know that, would you? Erm, exactly how old are you!!
“”aggravated” rather than caused the situation”.
Delicious legalese, one to be savoured!
And, Councillor, resort to oafish insults and bad language leaves you sounding like, er, your average ‘footie’fan.
Still, I am delighted that my intervention has, shall we say, adjusted the original picture painted by our host!
Actually, Mr Duff, you have adjusted nothing.
“And, Councillor, resort to oafish insults and bad language leaves you sounding like, er, your average ‘footie’fan.”
Glass houses, Mr Duff, Glass Houses.
Sorry, Duffy, but I watched the thing unfold on the TV and will never for get it, and have been disgusted ever since at the attempts to suggest that Hillsborough was the fault of the fans.
A poorly designed terrace, with added fences, a panicking novice police commander, lacklustre stewarding and a lot of people trying to do what they had done many Saturdays before without such incident, so it must be the latter that was at fault according to a guy who thinks Wolves v Wycombe was ever a ‘major’ football game.
You think you know what happened and why better than Lord Taylor, who for all his ‘legalese’ did run a major enquiry into the event, whereas you… read stuff in the papers and have prejudices to uphold.
Blame the victims, eh? I guess in Mr Duff’s cynical and deluded eyes, some of the poor souls who died during the Marchioness disaster died thanks to their drinking/intake of drugs too? The boat may have been in a collision which sank it, the captain of the Bowbelle drunk, but had the bankers and their friends not been partying and drunk, more could have just swam for longer and survived. Or is it just working class football fans/Liverpudlians he has a problem with?
Any other victims of disasters stemming from systemic failures of design/police incompetence and lies you would like to have a misguided and ill-informed go at Duff?
Sometimes the rubbish spouted by ignorant people is astounding, and Mr Duff you are a prime example.
Mr Duff,
You do realize that hooliganism and violence at sporting events dates back over 500 years and that in the early days of football there were regular reports of fights. This tinted view of the past you hold is therefore rather baffling.
You talk of supporters taking personal responsibility which is a little offensive considering that many people who were there that day have suffered years of depression even committing suicide feeling guilt over being part of the disaster. Furthermore when will the police officers and those in charge take personal responsibility for their failings and the fact that their inability to act quickly and understand the nature of the crush caused the deaths of far more people than needed to die.
A terrible tragedy, the legacy of which is safer football stadia. Yes the police made inept decisions. Yes, the Football Authorities did not learn the lessons from a similar crush at Hillsborough several years before in a semi final between Spurs and Wolves. BUT…there was misbehaviour by fans. Go here and you see why many people in Sheffield are still angry at the lack of focus on the antics of some Liverpool fans and NOT a tiny minority either. I suspect this comment will be moderated because the truth is sometimes painful. http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Tell-us-your-memories-of.5081713.jp
David, there are more ‘plants’ in those comments than the Chelsea flower show.
Did all these ‘witnesses’ give evidence to the Taylor Inquiry into the events?
Go to any newspaper comments column (and most blogs, I suspect) and you will realise they attract a large range of people who would cheerfully try to convince you that the moon is made of blue stilton. Relying on this sort of stuff as if it was evidence that overruled the evidence under oath given at the time is a bit soft.
I repeat what I have said before, but no doubt Duffy will say it is being dragged out through gritted teeth, no-one denies there were fans who had drunk too much, some had stayed too long in the pub, some got in without tickets, and as the game kicked off the crowd surged to get in. No-one denies it, because everyone who regularly attended football matches, particularly as an away supporter, knew it happened week in, week out.
The difference at Hillsborough was that a poorly designed and stewarded stadium, combined with a totally inexperienced and incompetent police commander, turned that pushing and shoving in to a major tragedy. The correspondents from Sheffield can try to avoid that issue as much as they like.
Not much time, so quickly …
Mr. O’Keefe, my insults are never “oafish” and my language (in Blogdom) is rarely bad. Now prove otherwise!
Danivon, you did *not* “watched the thing unfold on the TV”, you watched a partial view of it from inside the stadium, you did not see what happened at the back or outside. As for ‘Wolves v. Wycombe’, I was simply asked when I had last attended a football match. I answered – I didn’t make any claims about it. I don’t think I know more than Lord Taylor, it is people like Councillor Piper who think they do which is why they keep agitating for yet another enquiry until they get one that gives them the verdict *they* think is right.
‘B’, yes, as it happens you are quite right. If (and I don’t know whether you are right or not) the people on board the boat were drinking/drugging then they might well have contributed to their own deaths if (and I do not know the details) they were unable to act quickly, or sensibly in an emergency.
Mr. Howes, yes, I know all about “muddy-mettled rascals” of yesteryear. They were rascals then but apparently not today. At Hillsborough the ones at the back were sober, courteous, er, victims of … well, pick anyone you like really, but they were victims because obviously no one is responsible for their own actions. ‘Nuf said! You tell me they are suffering depression. Well so am I, reading this sentimental tosh.
Duff, I didn’t want to bring this up, but you threw down the gauntlet and I accept.
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/flyingrodent/672752245665437207/
Now watch him claim context in a vain attempt to downplay the distateful nature of this comment.
Mr Duff,Can you return home now please,your village is missing its idiot…As someone who was present at that game (and the year earlier)I speak from personal experience as opposed to your blinkered media fed ignorance.The fact is drink plays a major part in society as a whole not just at a football match. The fact is the police’s pre-occupation with it,individual searches,every coach/minibus stopped enroute to be searched played a big part in ensuring traffic backed up later than would be wished.In 1988 fans were filtered down to the turnstiles which has one block to service two stands holding around 25000 fans. It worked well but wasnt repeated the year after-why? I was in the central pens that year and felt like I had done 15 rounds with Ali after it such was the crush and that was without any “late arrivals” being directed straight into them.I know of Man Utd fans who played there before 1989 Cup SF who said they had experienced similar bad policing and crushing in the pens.If you have watched the CCTV pictures outside,it doesnt show fighting or indeed anything even close to it,it does show several policemen on horseback who have lost control and have no idea in how to process the crowds. At Liverpool, for years little more than half a dozen policemen on horses contolled the entry of up to 28000 fans into one terrace without a hitch week in week out. Those fans were no different to the ones that turned up at Hillsborough on the fateful day. The difference was the men in “control” of their safety. The gates were opened to relieve the pressure and its clearly seen that the overwhelming majority walk through without any pushing or shoving,there are a few when past the gates through excitement make a run for the stand/terrace but I think its fair to assume that you are entitled to be excited at a cup semi final dont you? I suggest taht if you wish to be enlightened about tha days events, then you read Phil Scrattons excellent book on the matter,interestly called Hillsborough-The Truth. As a side note to the s*ns despicable headline, the editor rang Kenny Dalglish to ask him how he could “make things better”, KD replied “simple,print a bigger headline saying ‘we lied’. He refused and that started wht today is still probably the costliest blunder in tabloid history,reputed to have cost them well over £500m in lost sales. NEVER BUY THE S*N,IT TELLS LIES AND CATERS ONLY FOR BRAIN DEAD PLEBS LIKE YOU MR DUFF. It has pictures of a pair of tits for a reason, so people like you are not alone…
JFT96 RIP
“The fans who turned up late, by and for whatever means, tickets or not did have some factor in what happened…it is that that sticks in the craw of us Sheffield folk. I’m a blade so hold no love for the wreck that is Hillsborough but the fact remains, if fans had not rushed the gates, rushed the turnstiles, there would not have been the fatalities”
Steve, as someone relatively close to the tragedy, not just in proximity, I can’t help but feel a bit disappointed that you too seem to have accepted certain falsehoods proliferated by the Police as fact. If you look at the CCTV footage of the gate being opened (the one tape that didn’t go ‘missing’, that is), it clearly shows fans entering in an orderly fashion. There was no ‘rushing of the gates’ as you have been led to believe, and had these fans then been prevented from entering the two central pens then the disaster may well have been averted.
The other common misconception is that of ticketless fans being a contributor. Whilst I agree that there were ticketless fans there, as there will be at every game whilst touting is still ‘permitted’, there are two reasons why they would not have had any significant contribution to the disaster. Firstly, and this is based on my own conjecture admittedly, is that if you see the footage of the thousands of fans outside the turnstiles going nowhere, it is impossible to believe there is any point in a ticketless fan joining this throng. Ticketless fans will have been further away, looking for touts, rather than willingly joining a dangerously overcrowded bottleneck seemingly going nowhere. Secondly, and this is the clincher based solely on facts released at the time by Sheffield Wednesday football club, the attendance in the Leppings Lane stand was barely above the official capacity of 10,100. So, in conclusion, even if there were numerous ticketless fans that day, they didn’t make it into the ground.
I urge all people on here, regardless of their ‘understanding of the facts’ to go to http://www.hfdinfo.com for definitive info regarding the disaster. I would like Mr. Duff to go investigate that site also, maybe along with some survivor accounts at http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough, although I feel that he is already quite content with the conclusion he has been spoon fed, no matter how wrong that may be.
So, inch by grudging inch, we begin to approach a more rounded view of this particular tragedy and our host admits that “there were fans who had drunk too much, some had stayed too long in the pub, some got in without tickets, and as the game kicked off the crowd surged to get in.” All of which brings us full circle to my very first comment (No:2 above) in which using somewhat heavy-handed irony I suggested the same thing.
Talking of irony, Mr. O’Keefe’s ‘irony recognition device’ is obviously running low, or he is simply too dim to spot the ‘bleedin’obvious’, in my remarks to his hero, ‘Ratty’, another oafish Jock who is more than willing to dish it out, including once on his blog a ‘humorous’ remark about his wish to get in the bath with my wife and comb the hair on her back (which I admit made me laugh – but don’t tell her!), but who is unable to take a piece of whimsy in return. Instead, he burst into tears and banned me. Yes, Mr. O’Keefe, context is important.
Finally, Mr. Foster refers to *me* as an idiot, and yet he describes a particularly unpleasant and frightening incident at that very ground packed into pens – and yet the next year he went back!!!! Only one word can sum up that sort of behaviour – duh!
Duffy, you are making an arse of yourself. Worse, instead of making an arse of yourself to the few hundred people who come here on a daily basis, you are making an arse of yourself nationally, to a far greater audience, thanks to The Guardian coverage.
Your latest comment suggests the whole thing is begining to unhinge you. I did advise you to stop digging… but you didn’t heed it and now appear to be slipping from view.
Go back to chuntering about old battles to similar minded ‘folk’ and dwelling on misty memories of Wycombe Wanderers v Wolves. With a bit of luck people will soon forget your idiot rantings here.
Duff, wishing/hoping that Ratty’s girlfriend gets raped by a junkie burgulars is not my idea of my whimsy. I appreciate that i may have missed the irony, but that may have been because it was there was none.
I’m not going to go over this tragedy with you, especially, when you are in such a foul mood with those who fail to share your black and white view of the world. This is all getting rather childish, Duff, and I’ve had enough.
Made a right hash of the first paragraph so here I go again: saying something offensive and then immediately saying ‘Joke’ when you have caused offence does not get you off the hook. Whimsy my arse.
I have never ever posted on this site or any other web site, but the anger in reading the comments or rather the bile and hatred from David Duff, I just had to respond. The families, who lost loved ones, need our support, compassion, love and understanding at this time. They do not need your bigoted and vile views; you absolute low life of an excuse for a human being.
Mr. Clarke, I’m sorry for your reading difficutlies, really I am, I put it down to the rotten ‘Edukashun Servis’ we all have to pay through the nose for.
So, I will try and keep this simple: I did *not* say *anything* about the victims or their families. All I suggested was that those who came late, came drunk, came without tickets, came in pushing and shoving, were a major factor in the tragedy. There is a tendency, not a million miles from this blog, to suggest that somehow *they* were the victims! They were not. The innocent and blameless people at the front were the victims and I have every sympathy for them and their families. The ‘scouse’-led agitation to find some-one other than themselves to blame is the proper target for your ire.
Well, of course, the crowd behaved impeccably. Cockneys, gentlemen to a man, stood back and invited the ladies and the children to precede them and then tossed coins with each other to see who should enter first. Yes, yes, I know a couple of hundred people were crushed to death but it couldn’t have had anything to do with the crowd – it’s a mystery, really it is!
http://bit.ly/GCkw8