I don’t say this very often, and let’s face it, there aren’t that many chances to say it, but, here goes….
IAIN DALE IS RIGHT.
No, I don’t mean as in extreme right, but as in correct.
When he says that the modern Conservative Party is… open, tolerant and inclusive he is right. David Cameron has succeeded in dragging his Party out of the social abyss of Thatcherism. The old homophobic, sexist and racist Conservative Party is no more, it is gone, bereft of life…it is a dead parrot. Yes, there will still be pockets of Sir Tufton Bufton’s around, in the same way as there are still socialists in the Labour Party and Christians in the Church of England, but by and large those outdated ways of thinking have gone forever, banished to the political fringes of Littlejohn, Gaunt, Kelvin Mackenzie and the BNP (oh, and Duffers).
And we should be proud of that. The left has won the battle of ideas for tolerance, diversity and equality. Perhaps the major achievement of the Blair/Brown years has been to shift the social attitudes compass to the left. The progressive attitudes towards gays and lesbians, women and racial minorities are now accepted by all of the mainstream political parties.
And on the left we should not underestimate the impact of our victory. Once you have won the arguments for social equality, justice and fairness… it makes the move towards economic equality, justice and fairness so much easier to make.
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The biggest problem I have with stories like this, although I agree with you, is the incorrect use of “left wing”.
Liberal attitudes like this are right wing phenomenons. Being Liberal is a right wing attitude. It dates back to the days of the “Age of Enlightenment” around the 1600′s with Montesquieu, Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Voltaire. Libertarianism being an extreme right wing view shared by few thankfully.
Socialism, Communism, are left wing phenomenons. It’s predominantly about control so that their ideas, their agenda are pushed every step of the way.
The Tories are not, and have never been true right wingers – arguably taking the worst of both left and right to bastardise themselves into some sick, exclusive, stuck up, hybrid.
Labour have always been truly left wing.
The Liberals are more centrist, having more right wing views than the other parties, but still being predominantly left wing. It’s why they are termed “Social Liberals” these days.
The Libertarians really are the only right wing party in existance.
The BNP for example, are extream left wing. The Nazi’s were extream left wing (“National Socialism” anyone?).
I don’t know whether it’s right to blame America for this though – they seem to be the source of most of this bull, harping on about “left wing liberals” when the term itself is an oxymoron.
I know there is MUCH debate about this topic, but if it’s traced historically it really can be no other way?
You lost the fight to turn the country into the economic miracle that was Soviet ruled East Germany or replace Parliament with bullying .miners . The brave mission to disarm in the face of a military Dictatorship also failed..
It seems to me that the socially progressive constituency is not especially the property of the Labour Party ,certainly all these changes were accomplished in the USA without the assistance of Karl Marx and in a more lasting way than when imposed by diktat
How do you see the future?The final end of Marriage , the end of any special association between England and the English ?The abolition of any opinion whatsoever about any group of people and an eternity of birth copulation and death unleavened by any spiritual search ?
Oh Goody
generally speaking i agree with you that tories have become more at ease with changes that have occurred in society.
but labours record in social justice freedom and equality has not been great in the last 12 years.
democracy only really works if there is change otherwise it goes all to one party hell. labour do need a bit of a rebirth and i think with respect 4 years of rethink might be good.
I’m afraid I don’t agree. The Labour party was brought to the right by the 18 years in power of the last Conservative Government, or Tony Blair would not have won. He ditched most of the left wing ideas, at least in name. The Conservatives have now come more to the centre as well, so really the centre have won.
The likelihood of Brown losing the next election is because he has lurched more to the left again by fighting yesterdays battles about the few and the many.
Most ordinary voters can see through that as a far left mindset.
ChrisM, that’s just nonsense.
Labour have shifted to the right from their “raving socialist” days, but there can be absolutely NO argument that they are a left wing party, have been a left wing government, and have only tempered and spun their ideals rather than ditched a single one.
Labour have invested heavily in public services, raised taxes and increased red tape for businesses, passed employment legislation that put more of an onus on business’s while granting more rights to employees, passed laws that allow the police more powers of detention, and councils more powers to observe and curtail the activities of the people.
Yep, sounds right wing to me too. Not.
What a load of rot. The left has always been far more intolerant and bigoted than the right. The bigoted right is a lie that has been told so many times that people started to believe it, but that does not make it true.
“fighting yesterdays battles about the few and the many”
Dunno where you’ve been mate, but people are pretty pissed off about greedy bankers and expenses corruption ’round my way…
Don’t you think that Conservatism went the extra mile too far by being ‘inclusive’ with the Waffen SS sympathisers in Europe?
Ian Dale is usually right. With regard to the BNP, nice try but saying that they are right wing enough times doesn’t make it so. BNP take votes from Labour, not Tories as it is disaffected white working class voters who the BNP target.
As for the liberal/authoritarian left/right paradigms, may I suggest http://www.politicalcompass.org as a starting point.
“The left has won the battle of ideas for tolerance, diversity and equality.”
So that would be why the BNP are doing so well lately then!
Incidentally, could you specify any moral (or immoral) difference between ‘racism’, the hatred of an individual or group on the basis of their ethnicity, and ‘classism’, the hatred of an indivudual or group on the basis of their class. If not, will you throw a mobile ‘phone at Gordon Brown who never stops preaching the latter?
Don’t you think that Conservatism went the extra mile too far by being ‘inclusive’ with the Waffen SS sympathisers in Europe?
Hitler was a socialist and that fact he was a Nationalist as well is something he has in common with the IRA and PLO , your friends both of whom were also supporters of Nazi Germany.
The fact that there is no voice for English anti federal Conservatism in socialist Europe is precisely why we should not have been forced into it by a series of lies by Gordon Brown who bought of Ian Paisley if you recall to do it
What I like about you Gary is that you are not just a cretin you are a cretin at many levels you should be on a cooking show ..“Mmm yes I am getting the sweetness of ill-informed then the tartness of buffoon and then …great at the end just an intense explosion of berk”
Bob: is that a tongue I see in your cheek or are you just pleased to see me?
God, there’s a lot of right wingers on your site today Bob! Spouting their usual nonsense of course: “the BNP are all socialists and communists” (which is why they’re such great friends of trade unionists and people who aren’t white and heterosexual!) How many trade unionists, socalists and other left-wingers have been killed by fascists throughout history? An awful lot, because they are always the first to get out on the streets campaigning and defending communities against the thugs. Repeating this nonsense does a great disservice to the memory of the millions who have fought against such injustice.
Also, this: “Ian Dale is usually right”. Priceless.
To get back on the topic Bob, just wanted to put my oar in and say that yes, we have been winning this battle and yes we should congratulate ourselves for dragging the debate to the left on this but the danger is we see it as finished – that racism, sexism and other forms of social intolerance have been eradicated. Not saying you do, it’s just that lots of discriminatory and offensive things nowadays are admitted because people, thoughtful conscientious people, see the hard-fought victories from before as enough. It’s a constant battle.
Anyways, always enjoy reading the blog and just thought I’d stop lurking for once!
Garry, you should stop lurking more often, because you talk a lot of sense. I agree we haven’t wiped out discrimination, I just think we have won the war of ideas and shunted those attitudes off to the BNP (and Duffers). As always, much more to do though… the march of history is a long road.
Shouldn’t that be
‘Herr Newmania said’
‘Are you, or have you ever been a Nazi sympathiser!!??’
Nein! Nein!
Yes and no – certainly the headline story for the Conservatives and the direction of travel for the leadership is exactly as Bob describes – towards the social liberalism of inclusion and tolerance of others, but I’m not convinced whether this is ingrained in the party yet. The Bufton Tufton tendency, while certainly in broad decline, is far from dead.
Hitler was a mass of contradictions that defy precise location on a political spectrum – claiming both nationalism and socialism as identifiers. The fact that he declared war on a communist/socialist country perhaps suggest that he may not have been a covert left-wing socialist. The BNP constantly attack ‘The Reds,’ which tends to mean anyone not in full agreement with their views, again suggesting that perhaps they are not really sympathetic socialists hiding beneath a veneer of irrational hatred.
‘PoliticalHackUK’,
I would suggest to you that there is nothing contradictory about being a national socialist, it simply means that you do not accept the idea of *international* socialism. In a sense, Attlee and his ‘brothers’ who served in Churchill’s wartime cabinet were ‘national socialists’, or, to put it more acceptably, ‘patriotic socialists’.
Nor, I would add, is there anything suprising about two different sects within the socialist ‘brotherhood’ falling out with each other, after all, that is the story of socialism since it first evolved, and then split, and split again, and so on ‘ad infinitum’! Our very own SWP is a living example, and the Labour party will be yet another after it loses the next election.
However, I do agree with you that Hitler was an individual whose imperatives were as much personal as political.