Bob Piper has been a Labour Councillor for the Abbey
Ward in Sandwell, West Midlands, for 10 years. He is a lifelong supporter of Aston Villa Football Club and a follower of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.
The views expressed here are mine in a personal capacity, not those of the Labour Party, Sandwell MBC, Aston Villa or Yorkshire County Cricket Club. Get it! Mine... just mine!
Promoted by Bob Piper of 115 Barclay Rd, B67 5JZ on behalf of the Labour Party, care of 39 Victoria Street London, SW1H 0HA . Hosted (printed) by Swaithe Internet Solutions who are not responsible for any of the contents of these posts.
Please note however, that The Labour Party is not responsible for the content of this website or individual posts as, unless specifically stated, I am writing solely in a personal and individual capacity.
Promoted by Bob Piper of 115 Barclay Rd, B67 5JZ on behalf of the Labour Party, care of 39 Victoria Street London, SW1H 0HA . Hosted (printed) by Swaithe Internet Solutions who are not responsible for any of the contents of these posts.
Please note however, that The Labour Party is not responsible for the content of this website or individual posts as, unless specifically stated, I am writing solely in a personal and individual capacity.
As we wait with bated breath for David Cameron's sleight of hand to get round his broken cast-iron promise on an EU referendum, David Davis suggests a device which would give people a referendum on:
recovering control over our criminal justice, asylum and immigration policies;
a robust opt-out of the European Charter of Fundamental Rights;
serious exemptions to the seemingly endless flood of European regulations which cost the UK economy billions of pounds each year;
a recovery of our rights to negotiate on trade;
exemption from European interference into trade in services and foreign direct investment rules; and an exemption from any restrictions on our foreign policy.
It's not terribly clear whether Davis is proposing 5 different questions in his referendum (what if I want to stop the "seemingly endless flood of regulations" - what a nice neutral way to pose a question - but support the Charter of Fundamental Rights?) or whether it is take it or leave it, all or nothing.
Nor do I see any sense in a further referendum if a Tory Government, having set out these fundamental objectives, completely failed to achieve them. If they had made it such a central part of their stratyegy, and failed totally, the general election that followed would be sufficient to allow the public to make up their minds on whether they were serious... or just posturing!
Jules Wright said:
November 5, 2009 3:38 PM | permalink
bob. so cameron broke his promise? wrong. he said in 2007:
"Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: if I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations. No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum."
lisbon is now ratified. it's too late. on 1 december it embeds itself in law. the irish, the poles and the czechs have ratified it making 27 out of 27 states. it was a race and now the game's over; referendum opportunity gone.
which part of the (admittedly complex) phrase 'done deal' do you not understand? throw us a bone here for chrissakes.
cameron is not the PM today; the tories are not the government today. he cannot fulfill the referendum promise because labour - with the volte-face help of the lib dems - ratified it in parliament. the rest is history.
how can you break a promise when the grounds of that promise have since been invalidated and removed through the actions of others?
try it. you'll find you cannot. but hey, don't let some honesty get in front of crap political partisanship.
Bob Piper said:
November 5, 2009 3:49 PM | permalink
Well, I'm with Hannan on this one... "any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations" to my mind means errrrm, any treaty. Which part of "any" don't you get? If Cameron becomes Prime Minister he can hold a referendum of the British people to say whether they accept the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, and if they do not accept it he can either negotiate exemption... or leave!
You see, Brown nor Blair never promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty... but people are constantly repeating as if it were fact that they did. Now I know political expediency cuts both ways. If Cameron had said at the time that he would accept the treaty if it was ratified, he may have had a point. But he didn't... because he wanted to carry on fooling his own right wing. Instead, now, we have some sort of wish-washy promises on a sovereignty act which Cameron knows as well as I do means... do nothing.
jules Wright said:
November 5, 2009 6:25 PM | permalink
sorry, just make that an expediently broken labour manifesto pledge (2005) if we're going to be pedantic. yes, they get broken all the time but on major issues of national interest - like this - to break them is a public betrayal. that's how voters perceive it; and in politics, perception is reality.
the problem here is labour, not the tories: the government of the day reneged on a critically important commitment, scared rigid by what it would have revealed - and the actions it would have demanded. period. no amount of spin, deflection or sophistry can change that. brown should be wearing a white feather. not a poppy.
Bob Piper said:
November 5, 2009 6:57 PM | permalink
Hey, I agree, I wanted a referendum. And when Thatcher and Major sold us down the river too. Oh, but of course... that was ok cos they didn't break a sacred covenant.
Don't talk soft man. A promise on Lisbon didn't change one vote and if you had an ounce of honesty, you know it to.
November 5, 2009 3:38 PM | permalink
bob. so cameron broke his promise? wrong. he said in 2007:
"Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: if I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations. No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum."
lisbon is now ratified. it's too late. on 1 december it embeds itself in law. the irish, the poles and the czechs have ratified it making 27 out of 27 states. it was a race and now the game's over; referendum opportunity gone.
which part of the (admittedly complex) phrase 'done deal' do you not understand? throw us a bone here for chrissakes.
cameron is not the PM today; the tories are not the government today. he cannot fulfill the referendum promise because labour - with the volte-face help of the lib dems - ratified it in parliament. the rest is history.
how can you break a promise when the grounds of that promise have since been invalidated and removed through the actions of others?
try it. you'll find you cannot. but hey, don't let some honesty get in front of crap political partisanship.