That is the problem is it not? both New labour and the Tories have morphed into what they think people want to hear, and not what is needed.

Good one today!!! I've been getting benefits now for ten years, I've just been told that my benefits will now be paid once a fortnight, the letter says you have to get paid in arrears, this means you will not be paid for one week until two weeks have passed but you will get one week as normal. Little wonder people have no bloody idea what the hell is going on...

I know he was talking about MPs, but his comments did encompass all politicians. Whatever our (considerable) differences, I've never believed you're in politics for the career or the money, and I don't believe I am either.

It's a pity that the many get tarred by the brush of the few. Perhaps what we actually need is more Parliamentary candidates who've done the hard graft at the coal face of local politics, where a lot of us don't claim much (if anything) in the way of expenses, and where the monetary reward isn't much to write home about (even in Birmingham).

People used to join the Labour Party because it stood for something and they wanted to make a difference to society and to the lives of working people.

These days it's a career choice. One made by an increasingly large number of ideologically empty right-wingers educated at Oxford. That might explain why the Labour vote has all but collapsed. I mean why vote for Tory-lite when you can vote for the real thing?

It did fill me with dread when he said that though, how far right could Hitchens go? Because he has always been a staunch critic of Cameron for being a pink leftwing Maoist. Of course he has a point - and so does Robert above - that NuLab and the Tories have morphed, but he is so rightwing it makes my hair fall out.

Fergus, I agree entirely. Anyone who goes in to local politics for money or a career must have fairly low levels of aspiration anyway, I suspect, because other than very few people there isn't much of either.

I can see why you agree with this, and I'm with you on this one. But the rest of his contribution to that programme showed why politicians - and even the current configuration - is better than a lot of the alternatives.

Hitchens represents the very worst of right wing populist media demagoguery. I'd sooner have Cameron (or Thatcher, come to that) than any prescription that he'd approve of.

I think that a real opportunity is almost past though. Labour needs to deselect it's MPs en masse after this years performance. We need MPs that are independent-minded to a degree, capable of scrutinising legislation rather than acting as social workers for their constituents.

I reckon we could revive the party, double the size of constituency parties and possibly improve our electoral position if we said that any CLP that could double it's membership could hold a new open selection process.

Hmm.

"Anyone who goes in to local politics for money or a career must have fairly low levels of aspiration anyway"

Hmm.

Lets examine the top earners for my County Council shall we? (From a handy list on the Beebs site, winkled out by a FOI request by the TPA.

Devon County Council chief executive P Norrey - £150,000
Devon county environment director and deputy chief executive E Chorlton - £111,405
Devon chief executive (retired) P Jenkinson - £128,052
Devon county solicitor R Gash - £123,540
Devon director, adult and community services D Johnstone - £123,540
Devon director, personnel and performance, H Barnes - £123,540
Devon director, finance and IT, J Mills - £123,540
Devon director children's services A Whiteley - £120,000
Exeter chief executive P Bostock - £100,000
North Devon chief executive John Sunderland - £106,252
Plymouth chief executive Barry Keel - £168,216
Plymouth director of children's services Bronwen Lacey - £127,416
Plymouth director of community services Clive Turner - £112,715
Torbay chief executive Elizabeth Raikes - £135,000
Torbay strategic director of children's services Margaret Dennison - £105,000

Oh, and all the above get a handsome pension as well.

'low levels of aspirations' my backside.

Mr Jolly, I don't know whether you are being disingenuous or just plain thick, (previous experience of your comments point to the latter) but Fergus was talking about the politicians, not the council officers.

But even so, you will see that I wrote 'other than very few people'... which you conveniently overlooked. Compare the money for the few people you have mentioned with the small army of care assistants, cleaners, teaching assistants, clerical staff, cooks, etc. etc.

Bob,

You need to move Down Under if you want to earn a living in local government. After a local election (and annually thereafter) the State government sets a range of salaries for mayors and councillors and then the very same mayors and councillors vote to where in that range their salaries should be. No prizes for guessing what they chose to pay themselves.

Treble amber fluids all round!