Socialism but to late, it's sad if Labour had done this two years ago it would have kept me on board sadly Labour are now looking at who will keep them in power and they have decided it's not going to be the middle England swing voter. Sadly I think this has come to late for people to believe. If it pays off and the recession ends and Labour says told you so, I might say OK I was wrong, if it fails then Labour going to be out of power for a very very long time, because people will know and understand why the Tories are finding it hard to get things back on track and Labour will be blamed for years to come.

Yep I think you are. By that time it will have been seen that today's economic lunacy has failed. I think Gorgon will go to the country earlier.

Darling and Brown are nothing but economic loons .. Rule 1: if you're in a hole stop digging - and they're digging like a pair of demented moles.

Question: I'm in debt, what do I do?
Answer Of course you borrow more and reduce your income at the same time .. yeah that'll work
Zanu NL will end up the same as all labour administrations - bankrupt and with nowhere toturn but to the IMF, desperately bleating for help.

Sadly, I'm old enough to have seen this before, but on a MUCH smaller scale, and unlike your lot, I do study history - you could benefit if you did the same.

But you're not interested in the economic well being of the country as a whole, only that of your client-state

Every pensioner will get a one-off payment of �60 from January.I had hoped to do my bit to kick start the economy, and had ordered a thousand pound laptop, needless to say as I have no money of my own all was depending on how much I was going to be given. The sixty quid alas is not going to allow me to do my bit after all which is a pity, as the chappie in the computer shop was not very understanding about my lack of funds.

Think EU rules rule out anything else. Won't have much impact anyway and nor will reducing it from next Monday - 99p Shops can now be called 97p Shops. Much better to have given everything to the low paid who would actually spend it. And similarly through huge hikes in tax credits to non-workers. What the hell's the point in a tax cut that leaves food and fuel bills -things that impact most on the poor- untouched.

And if I hear one more reference to "hard working families" I'll shoot someone! What about single people, childless couples, single parents, pensioners? Don't we support them anymore? Or has some focus group ruled them irrelevant?

Big psychological mistake as well to claw back the 2p VAT saving on fuel, and the new tax on the rich is far too little, far too late. But at least he's working down the manifesto list for survival I offered some time ago.
John

All this rubbish about an election in 2010, my prediction is May 2009. Gordon said on Sunday that he was even thinking about an election which means he definatley is.

I think that the proposed VAT change is indeed an indicator of a 2009 General Election. So to is the likelihood that even if growth returns, unemployment may well peak that bit later in 2010. Add to that the dangers of being dependent on events that would go with holding off for 2010, I cannot but expect the PM who is a pretty tribal politician to his finger tips, to go for sometime in 2009.

Can't say I am convinced that this is a package to turn things round. And given that VAT is not applicable to many basic items, I think in that regard (accepting that other changes are in a different direction) we have a policy that is redistributive in a way that is not to the benefit of the relative position of poorer people.

To Andy
The country is in a recession, what should the Govt do? I know cut spending, increase tax, resulting in less money in the economy, more people out of work, less tax revenue and more debt. Genius.
By the way, do the Tories still want to fritter away £3 billion on raising the inheritance tax threshold?

Bruce Anderson over on the Indy highlights what our glorious unelected Leader is up.
PSBR = Price of Subsidizing Broon's Re-election.
I fear what he is up to is going for that fourth term regardless of the cost to the country, or the party, it is purely to spite Tony Wots His Name.
Then having won the election he will slope off to a nice little job at the IMF, leaving the newly elected Labour government to face the explosion that was today's PBR.
If I were a Labour Party member I would be very afraid of the poisoned chalice Broon will leave you.

Thank you Gordon for a tax increase on haulage which will effect the price of most things in the country as they are all shipped by road. Knock of the VAT which could be reclaimed and up the duty which can't.

Bet the extra duty on beer and fags doesn't come down either when the VAT goes back up (at least not if Labour are still in charge!)

You seem to be forgetting that the JCHR has warned the government that the legality of the next General Election may depend upon convicted prisoners getting the vote.

I think Labour can write off Otis Ferry if he is convicted by then and gets a custodial sentence. Porridge Otis?

john edwards said: "And if I hear one more reference to "hard working families" I'll shoot someone!"
How about "bloody pensioners" they do nowt but moan and scrounge, and nobody likes them.

Cynical, cyclical, it all comes around in the end. George Osborne clearly made the speech of the day, and didn't "Dave" look worried.

Once people get to sixty they should be dressed up in white and told to smoke this and you will see god, Allah or whom ever. For the sick the disabled and all those who cannot work they should be sent down to organ removal and then placed into large power station ovens to help keep the hard work people warm.

I'm all for that myself.

I'm not disabled I can work.

Martin: It was a great performance by George Yachtsborne, and I picked up Dave's body language too. Based on this, I think the Tories could do worse then sack Dave for George and Labour could be in trouble.

Will nobody answer the question, why in this economic downturn do we need 3 Titan Prisons at a cost of £2bn?

I think the plan to pump 15bn into the economy using the various methods described is commendable and should go someway towards helping the economy through a recession.

The bit that is totally barking mad is the 0.5% increase to employers/employees NI.

A complete gaffe and nothing to do with the case in hand.This one move can undo business and employment at a criticl time of recovery.
Unless of course,the cost of the NHS is unseen and out of control but then again, capital build is part of the fiscal plan for recovery.
An explanation of this increase should be sought.

In general though, I thought Gideon to be clownworthy and an embarrassment to rich moguls everywhere. A personal recession to him would be to lose Buckinghamshire.

I agree JailHouse, but I wonder how many top Tories are picking up on that vibe. Labour were just slumped on the front-bench, the exhaustion will manifest itself somewhere soon.

What about the planned increase in VAT to 18.5% in 2011-12 by this PBR? So much for no 'hidden' plans eh.

A cracking exclusive... but the Treasury have said there are no such plans, hidden or otherwise, so instead of looking like you've got a scoop it makes you look a bit of a tit, doesn't it?

Surely somone proof read and approved the Explanatory Notes that were published with the Statuory Instrument ... oh, yes, Stephen Timms did - he signed them! Perhaps he's the 'tit' you describe.

The notes have now been removed from the OPSI website where I was looking at the VAT rules for work.

BTW; what about the tax increase for discretionary trusts - something that I use for protecting vulnerable people from themselves and others?

It's really quite amusing. For days the likes of Dale and Staines have whipped up their camp followers to say that a reduction of two and a half percent in VAT is irrelevant and that it only knocks off a minuscule amount of the price of a Mars bar... now we're expected to believe that a 1 per cent increase (even though it wasn't planned) is a bloody bombshell

A 1% increase in the price of all the goods and services (with the exception of certain goods that are zero rated and on a reduced rate) that you buy in the year is much more significant in the daily lives of people in the UK than a 5% increase in the top rate of tax.

The sums involved are significantly larger and would, it appears, go some way to fill the enormous gap in the overly optimistic expectations of the Government for funding for the last of the years for which they have provided figures in the PBR.

A good point, Bob but maybe not as good as the three (of six) points you gave Stoke the other week.