Bob Piper has been a Labour Councillor for the Abbey
Ward in Sandwell, West Midlands, for nine years. He is a lifelong supporter of Aston Villa Football Club and a follower of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.
The views expressed here are mine in a personal capacity, not those of the Labour Party, Sandwell MBC, Aston Villa or Yorkshire County Cricket Club. Get it! Mine... just mine!
It is a little known fact that following the 1997 general election if you chose to travel from Land's End to John O' Groats, if you chose your route carefully you could avoid entering a single constituency represented by a Conservative MP - with one single exception (I'll leave readers to have a stab at which one).
When historians judge the legacy of the Blair/Brown years it will be interesting to see what they make of it. I was reflecting on this after reading a post from Cassilis, in which Liam speculated that New Labour represented a much bigger break from the historical Labour tradition of socialism than Cameron has had to do to drag the Tories in to the centre.
Personally, as I said on Cassilis, I don't think Blair moved Labour very far from its social democratic position, and I don't think Cameron will do much to move the Tories very far to the centre either. The rhetoric of both far outweighs the substance, I suspect. I know Liam said he didn't think Europe was a big issue any more, but I still suspect it is the elephant in the corner of the room for David Cameron.
The Tory leadership know that their chances of shifting the supertanker that is the EU more than a few feet one way or the other is remote. Leaving the EU is just not an option for them either. Just as Blair/Brown instinctively knew they could not win a referendum for Lisbon, Cameron knows the fear of economic isolation, whether perceived or real, means that people will not vote to throw of their EU comfort blanket. So the dilemma for Cameron in office, as opposed to the rhetoric of opposition, is how to appear sufficiently Eurosceptic to keep his party happy, whilst actually doing nothing to shake the cosy European consensus.
I'm fairly sure the Tory party in the country will live with all the diversity/gay rights agenda, albeit through gritted teeth for many, they seem to have accepted the Labour right-wing NHS reforms, and the economy rumbles along on the back of whatever global boom and bust is around at the time. But just looking at the tory blogs and glancing through the tory press, the one thing guaranteed to rile them almost more than Gordon Brown himself... is their inbuilt, undying hatred for the European Union. Instead of giving them the capitalist club they wanted, it has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare, a regulator's paradise, the dark side itself.
If Cameron can do what John Major never could, and deal with "the bastards" he would find life much easier. They may keep schtum in their quest for power, but one way or the other, the aftermath could be very unpleasant.
Of course, all that is predicated in the Tories gaining power. That's by no means a nailed on certainty, but I suspect it will be a long time before you can travel the length of the country (mostly) avoiding Tory territory again.
they seem to have accepted the Labour right-wing NHS reforms
Ha ha ha , you are starting to believe your own propaganda Bob .Yes that’s right the Labour Party are the ones to introduce the market into social provision but I am enjoying your first baby steps to try and claim some right wing territory.
On Europe ,you are of course partly right but whereas the old Conservative Party was split for deeply rooted doctrinal reasons it is now solidly Euro Sceptic( and you sum it up well allowing for your prejudice against wealth creation).Had David Cameron behaved as Brown did over Lisbon there would be a riot .I take your point about the likelihood of any immediate drama , I would not support it and real Conservatives are a good deal more small c conservative than the bloggers ( me too )
The Labour Party does not have Social Democratic roots it has Fabian and Union roots. Democracy was already there but this is a fascinating piece .You are starting to soft peddle the tax and spend left of which you approve , much more humble pie will be eaten by M,. Piper I predict.
You are right about Blair , Labour have done what they always do and run out of money . It just took longer because of the global economy and far less changed than was pretended. I think the real change will have to come now and from what I see over at Compass etc. There is a battle royal coming about ditching socialism finally and irrevocably. Blair was all show and while you are right the Conservatives have not changed all that much but then they never were the demons you pretended in the first place . Diversity is fine uncontrolled and torrential immigration is like by no-one and is quite a different matter.
Bob Piper said:
August 5, 2008 6:38 PM | permalink
Newmania, there is so much totally wrong in what you say there that it would take me longer than I am prepared to donate to correct and educate you. But just one paragraph stands out for being so stupid I feel compelled to comment.
I never mentioned the Labour Party roots, and I made no mention, let alone "soft peddled" on taxation or spending, so it is really difficult to spot the humble pie eating.
I suspect you are confusing my views with those of the Government (or knowing you, it could be someone or something completely different - but do I care? No.).
I'm very opposed to the EU as it stands, Fred. My experience is that the Party in power is pro-EU, and when they are out of office they are anti-EU. I've been fairly consistent for over 30 years, I can not support the institution as it is composed because of the lack of democratic checks and balance. it is a political opposition, not an economic one as such.
August 5, 2008 4:50 PM | permalink
they seem to have accepted the Labour right-wing NHS reforms
Ha ha ha , you are starting to believe your own propaganda Bob .Yes that’s right the Labour Party are the ones to introduce the market into social provision but I am enjoying your first baby steps to try and claim some right wing territory.
On Europe ,you are of course partly right but whereas the old Conservative Party was split for deeply rooted doctrinal reasons it is now solidly Euro Sceptic( and you sum it up well allowing for your prejudice against wealth creation).Had David Cameron behaved as Brown did over Lisbon there would be a riot .I take your point about the likelihood of any immediate drama , I would not support it and real Conservatives are a good deal more small c conservative than the bloggers ( me too )
The Labour Party does not have Social Democratic roots it has Fabian and Union roots. Democracy was already there but this is a fascinating piece .You are starting to soft peddle the tax and spend left of which you approve , much more humble pie will be eaten by M,. Piper I predict.
You are right about Blair , Labour have done what they always do and run out of money . It just took longer because of the global economy and far less changed than was pretended. I think the real change will have to come now and from what I see over at Compass etc. There is a battle royal coming about ditching socialism finally and irrevocably. Blair was all show and while you are right the Conservatives have not changed all that much but then they never were the demons you pretended in the first place . Diversity is fine uncontrolled and torrential immigration is like by no-one and is quite a different matter.