Cllr Piper - this, as you well know, is a complete non-story.

Every party/pressure group/residents association does exactly this with online polls - they are without credibility.

You know this. Maybe you should think before you post

Scraping the barrel again Bob. It's an absolute non story. By the way, I just voted for DC..to annoy you.. so there!!!

Oh dear, they've had 649 votes now and it's 76% yes! Vote early and vote often....

Simon... perhaps you mix with the wrong type of people. In my 30 years in the Labour Party I can categorically and without a word of a lie tell you that I have never once been invited to do this sort of thing. Nor would I if I was approached to do so. If the polls are "without credibility" why do the Tories want to fiddle them?

Maybe you should think (about your own integrity) before you comment.

Godzilla, you're doing it again. You merely prove my point about Tories on the fiddle.

Is the non-story line fed to you by Central Office?

The poll is meaningless, you can vote as many times as you like. What it does day is that you were unwise to highlight it, as it's had the opposite effect to the one you wanted. .. it's called the Jonah effect. It seems to be catching

Camoron is still winning heavily.

Also, the readers of Liberal Democrat Voice voted that Thatcher was bad for the country, which may interest you :)

Only out of touch Labourites (synonymous of course) believe what they see on online polls.

It takes a certain type of person..:-)

Tories fixing votes. Good warning for everyone. The best democracy money can buy.

Well Bob in years gone by some of us party loyalist had much fun in packing and rigging the SAVE OUR IDS on line poll.

Trust me he had far less support than the tory sheeple tried to claim.

GW

Mr. Piper,

It seems that you are very much in the minority in thinking that this is a story of any significance whatsoever - the comments posted by the public on the Times website universally show disbelief that the story ever warranted publication; your own comment-posters also seem to be of that view.

As it is, do you not think that your interpretation of the email is a little labour-tinted and overly cynical ? A fair reading of the email would suggest that the author is doing no more than appealing to assured Cameron supporters to show their colours and place their vote accordingly. There is no suggestion that anybody is being asked to do anything more than exercise their right to vote in accordance with their belief.

An allegation of "rigging" could only withstand scrutiny if something underhand was being effected. What is underhand about asking people to vote as they wish ?

In truth, any suggestion that there was something fishy going on is risible - Do you suggest that the author was forcing people to vote against their conscience ? How do you suggest that they would achieve that ? Otherwise, tell me what they were doing wrong, and tell me how it differs from any party seeking to maximise genuinely sympathetic turnout for a free vote ?

And if we are to interpret the approach of individuals to voting as a reflection of true party colours, how are we to view instances such as the Birmingham postal vote scandal (a Labour misdemeanour) and the example cited by the Times at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1719907.ece (another Labour misdemeanour) ? Do we condemn your party accordingly for showing its own "core values" ?

Sorry Bob, but your lot are past masters at this kind of thing. Rigging online polls is chickenfeed.

I'm pleased you picked up on this Bob. I read about it earlier, and obviously I looked first to CoffeeHouse and ConHome for an explanation and their take on it, but surprise - no mention. Just too disappointing. And I think (despite Simon posting here and at Red Box that it isn't) it's an excellent scoop.

Duncan Sandes, Conservative regional press officer, looks to have been in a bit of a hurry to get the emails out (judging by typo 'David Cameroin's visit') and get that poll turned around pretty damn sharpish. Which it did.

Like you Bob, I have never once been contacted or asked to scam any sort of poll, but there are serious lessons to be learned here about organisation that we seem to be falling down on.

GW

Are you Bob Piper?

Godzilla, of course he/she isn't. The clue is actually in the initials.

Justin... except from that, 'this sort of thing' isn't actually 'this sort of thing'... but I take your point. You thought that was reprehensible. So do I. Which proves what, precisely?

Mr Phillips (my, you're so polite) it was a clear attempt to rig a readers opinion poll and the Tories got found out. Just live with it. If you are asking me if I condemn Labour voting fraud, then yes, unreservedly... but those in glass houses... http://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/articles/1/3715

It seems that whilst I am prepared to condemn fiddling, for Tories it is so embedded you can't even see what's wrong with it.

Bob, if It had been a poll about Gordon, either you would have never mentioned it , or you would not have had time to check you blogposts as your finger would have been permanently on the vote button for "the great leader"(note the lower case)
Highlighting this makes you look rather foolish. Must go. Got to vote for DC again, Vote late, vote often"!!

Hi Bob:

This is like when the Home Secretary used to pack the Parole Board with members like-minded to decide in favour of the Secretary of State against the prisoner.

With such dishonesty, the Tories cannot point the finger at prisoners and claim they are morally superior.

For a non-story, it sure has got some hot under the collar.

Godzilla... what colour is the sky in your world? Of course I wouldn't have mentioned it. But Tory bloggers would have had much fun watching Labour supporters squirm with embarrassment.

The fact that Tories are not ashamed tells us all we need to know.

'New' Tories- same old corruption.

I hear people on the doorsteps using the word 'fear' to illustrate what they think the Tories will do to weaken their pensions, to be weak on anti-social behaviour and to use tax cuts to stuff their Tory mates' pockets with money that should be used for the good of society and the community as it is now.

With the Tories stitching up the democratic process so transparently- and then bragging/braying about it- I understand why the word 'fear' is the one they choose to use.

Mr. Piper,

Two things:

(1) You accuse me of being a Tory, but you know nothing of my background or my voting preference. I simply have a dislike for intellectual dishonesty and for those whom, in the absence of any reasoned argument, believe that bare assertion is an adequate substitute. It is not.

(2) In that regard, you fail to answer my questions to you (preferring instead simply to assert that "it was a clear attempt to rig a readers opinion poll and the Tories got found out"). I shall repeat them: Do you suggest that the author was forcing people to vote against their conscience ? How do you suggest that they would achieve that ? Otherwise, tell me what they were doing wrong, and tell me how it differs from any party seeking to maximise genuinely sympathetic turnout for a free vote ?

At the end of the day, an allegation that a vote was "rigged" requires that you demonstrate that what took place was dishonest and designed to defraud and mislead. What is dishonest and misleading about maximising genuinely sympathetic voting turnout in order to achieve the best outcome for your point of view ? Is that not the very essence of democracy ?

By the way: your reference to "glass houses" is misplaced - it was you who started this debate by suggesting that vote rigging was a Conservative core value; given the examples of previous Labour electoral malpractice to which I alluded (and which you yourself have condemned), it is on this occasion you (not any Tory) who lives in the glass house.

Warmest regards,

NP

Mr Phillips... God, you're boring!

Do you think I can be arsed to read all that nonsense.

Go out and get some sort of life man.

Thank you for stumbling headlong into the trap, Bob, and revealing yourself for what you and your defunct party truly are - abusive, and devoid of any ability to argue your case. Roll on 2010 (or September, if the papers are right) !

Voted "yes" just to irritate you, Mr. Piper.

(Voted Green last time, Lib Dem next time. Not a Tory!)

A response worthy of Donal Blaney.

Gosh, Mr Phillips, you're a clever one! Drat, I never saw it coming.

LS, frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a damn (about the poll or how you voted)... I was just enjoying winding you all up, and it clearly worked a treat.

Donald who?

Currently the poll results are ...
"83% good, 26% bad". Perhaps not to be trusted then.

Bob. In case you haven't seen it. From the Western Morning News. -
"THE Tories were last night accused of trying to influence an opinion poll on the WMN website. For two weeks, the online vote showed just a quarter of people who had taken part thought a Cameron government would be good for the Westcountry.

But yesterday, Duncan Sandes, the Tories' South West press officer, sent an e-mail to activists telling them to vote to 'push the percentage the right way'. Last night, the result had turned around with just a quarter of voters saying a Cameron government would be bad for the region.

Lib-Dem MP Nick Harvey said: 'The change in ratings is not a reflection of a sudden change in the South West's political colours but another example of political spin.' A Tory Party spokesman said: 'It was a very over-enthusiastic response by a junior member of staff and we would not condone it.'
Mr Sandes declined to comment."

Well, Chaz, at least the Tory Party spokesperson showed some contrition, even if it was too much for the commenters on this site to stand up and do the same.

It just makes you wonder how often these small local polls are fixed. It's self defeating for Lab/Lib voters who may well think the tide is against them and decide not to bother voting, assuming their vote won't count?

Here's hoping that the SW electorate will now be made well aware that they've all been conned, and react accordingly.
Perhaps a visit to the beach and a bucket of sea water thrown at a certain smarmy, wallet-less, campaigning, 'holidaying' politician, some rude hand signals, or sand kicked in his eyes would get the message across.
With the Sun photographer in attandance, natch.

Oh good grief!

People - it's a blog! It's written by someone who is upfront in their political affiliation. It's not a 'paper of record', it's one person's view of the world. If you could buy virtual fish & chips, this is what they would be virtually wrapped in. (No offence Bob)

If people have to think, consider, balance and evaluate everything before putting it on a blog then it stops being a blog. I see over on Iain Dale's that some people are now pushing for a bloggin 'code of conduct' / regulation. Don't people understand that what makes blogs interesting is the biased immediacy of it all?

P.S. Bob - on a completely different subject, what do you make of the 'beach' in Chamberlain Sq I saw a picture of the other day? Good? A waste of money? Or an attempt by the elite to subjugate the masses?

BillyBoy, I see it more like a rant at Speakers Corner (and the commenters are hecklers - we both give as much as we take) rather than your offensive chip paper comparison. Thanks anyway.

I quite like the beach idea, actually. They did it last year and it pissed down all summer, That's Tories for you.

Bob, you bring it on yourself... Wait an hour or so and you will be overwhelmed by people venting their spleens that you now blame bad weather on the Tories as well. You're just soooo unfair!

;-)

As Nevil has taken issue with you for knowing nothing about him, perhaps I should effect an introduction...

http://www.quadrantchambers.com/index.aspx?p=1007&barristerId=76

If the usual spelling of his first name were not enough of a give away, only a lawyer would maunder on about the minutiae of defining 'rigged' in law.

Re: the beach
I can't get over the lack of thought put into it, who puts a bar but in the middle of it but toilets so far away you have to pack up all your stuff and all trek to use them? Who organises a beach where you can't buy / rent / borrow a bucket and spade but can buy a pretzel and a pint?

Before you answer Bob, I do know who... the bloody tories - note the lower case ;)

Tim Ireland over at Bloggerheads.com is onto this one. He makes the point that Duncan Sandes, the Tory press officer, was until a year ago employed as a hack at the Western Morning News. Tim then wondered if any of his articles for the paper had shown a noticeable pro-Tory bias?

For some reason the hacks at the WMN are refusing to give him copies of Sandes' work from their morgue - so Tim looks set to pay a trip to Collindale to look up the British Library copies.

That man is like an atomic powered ratting terrier, he really is.

Does Interpol know about this????