On a lighter note.

If you can get your hands on Rab C Nesbitt, series one episode two. This is about the By-election in Govan where the SNP win by 1 vote overturning a 10,000 something Labour majority. The Labour party candidate dreams of better things than being an MP in Glasgow. A column in the Sun was his first choice.

"If the current capitalist recession is short and sharp and the economic indicators improve, then Labour can avoid a meltdown"

Dear me, 'Nye' Bevin must be spinning in his grave, a Socialist party depending on capitalism to save their bacon! I thought the correct socialist approach was to nationalise everything in sight. Distinct signs of deviationism, Comrade, I'm afraid a report will have to be made!

David, you clearly have a different view of socialism to me.

I only wish Labour were a socialist party, but sadly it isn't and never has been. As for the capitalist recession, it is a reality. You might choose to deal with fantasies, I am afraid I have to live in the world as it exists.

By the way, you've got your Bevins in a twist. Bevin was Ernie, Nye was Bevan.

You're poor little chance of ever being comfortable off, no way of getting a decent job and few opportunities of improving your lot without loads of help. But then along comes the first electable Labour Party for many years, you've got to be chuffed to bits so you rush out and vote for Tone and Gordon. Ten years later your lot has not improved, so why the hell would you vote for a party that deserted you as soon as it got into power. You may be poor and scruffy but you ain't daft enough to think that all will be well if you once again vote Labour. The so called Labour safe seats are certainly not safe, but the seats where the folk despite a bit of moaning have houses still worth more than they could have hoped for in their wildest dreams, who still have nice cars, who still dress in smart expensive cloths and who manage a couple of exotic holidays a year that's your Labour voter today. All in all not been a bad ten years for most and this is the lot that could keep Gordon in power, what do you think of that ? This Labour party is the party of the rich and the we're all right Jack, Maggie out, Gordon out, everybody out ! We don't care about poor people much anymore, that's what Maggie started and Tony continued with relish, and Gordon hasn't the guts to do the right thing and sort it.

You are spot on in your analysis Bob.It's the economy that is drawing the vote away from Labour.
Quite though what they do to change that is unclear.And remember it was the policy of Brown that in some ways has led to the problem.He created an economy that grew on comsumer spending and debt.Inflation was kept under control not by monetary policy but by global competition.
The problem is now that the Tories are going to win in 2 years time with no solutions to the crisis.That would be even more of a disaster.

I don't know what the solution is,possibly reflate and borrow but then the party will be accused of slipping back into its tax and spend ways.

Capitalism has been said by some to be "spiralling into a long and deep depression" throughout my lifetime! Remember how people on the left said it had within it the seeds of its own destruction?

As with democracy, which is far from perfect, no one has come up with a convincing rival to capitalism. I hate to sound like Mrs T but there really does seem to be no alternative so we have to learn to live with it rather than fight against it...

Mike, I agree with much of what you say.

A few thoughts and points.

The economy is killing us at the time being; just as it kills any party in office at the time of global recession. I don't expect people to distinguish between an economic slump and what the Tory press would drive them to incorrectly think is Government incompetence.

Labour always does badly at Glasgow City by-elections: be it the Red Clydesiders or the SNP making off with the vote. We last won one at Garscadden in 1978- with Donald Dewar as an obviously superb candidate and no radical opposition out there: the SNP riven by splits and no Red Clydeside.

The Liberals fought an appalling campaign- a single issue of saving a local fire station. Back to the 80s with a vengeance- anyone would think their foxy elections supremo, Lord Rennard, deliberately didn't want to split the radical but anti-Labour vote in a seat the Liberals didn't stand in prior to 1974 and could never win.

Glasgow East will be Labour again at the next General Election. Scotland will be Labour again at the next National Election.

What a rubbish result. Glaswgow has voted for an idiot over a great candidate. Blair recovered from Brent east. I am sure we will recover from this protest vote.

Well despite a couple of encouraging comments above, I have to conclude that the game is probably up. Don't worry about 2010 though Bob - I'll be back from wherever I am to push leaflets through doors and get shouted at all across Bearwood. We can't lose.

Does anyone find it a bit odd that labour were 17 points in the lead with a week to go, and Bookies had massive odds in favour of a labour win 1 and a half hours after voting had stopped. Yet the SNP win by "just" 300 votes.

I was loking at betfair and the snp were 7-1 on some bets, with 1 and half hour of voting closed.
Why does no one ever question the result when it is so out of line with polling results and bookies odds. OK may the SNP did win but surely someone should just investigate to see if this was just voter fraud. The was vote fraud in the last scottish elections. By both sides by the way.
I think there should be a law that an exit poll should be done for every by election and major elections.

I think the electorate just have nulab fatigue, as well as no money left after fuel bills. Brown doesn't help at all as all he says I am best at running the country but not why he is best placed to run the country. The view from here says that after 10 years of global quiet labour face an economic dowturn and they are falling flat on their face.

If as you seem to wish Bob they were actually a socialist party then at least they could rely on the socialist vote but as at best the majority of the plp are light blue tory lab then I think they are stuffed at the next general election and will probably cease to exist and the lab party we know and 'love'.

The economy is not in bad shape yet and if that’s the thumb you choose to suck you are finished. Labour has to change , it has to accept the new zeitgeist. Each member of it has to be that change and experience that change in a positive way
Be the change Bob……..(*barely suppressed mirth*) good luck.

OK here is my plan.
We keep the present leader as PM until after next years euro and local elections. So he can take the pain of the economic downturn, and the almost defeat any government will suffer in the euro elections. Then we have a long 4 month leadership election starting after the euro elections with a beauty paegent of a labour conference during this leadership election.
This way a new leader would be appointed hopefully with the economy growing.
This has to be next year not this year hopefully when the economy is growing or atleast when the public. This way the new leader could have a trouble free honeymoon period, with no elections or ecnomic downturn to face.

Bob
Like you, I think we're doomed in 2010 but the damage could be limited by a new leader so we might not have to serve the 'three terms of pugatory' as the Tories have done to date. But if Dave does get in he will have very tough decisions to make regarding taxation, spending, reviving the economy and so far, he has shown no believable sign that he has any clue whatsoever.

I agree with your second point, Bill, but I think if we changed Leader again we would be obligated to have a speedy general election, and in the current economic circumstances and public mood, we would be wiped out. Turkeys, as we know, don't try to hasten Christmas.

It's a shame that you've fallen for the myth of the Thatcher-Blair consensus.

There remains a lot to do, but given that Labour's achievements are rarely acknowledged, it falls to us to shout about them. Take the NHS, for example, under the Tories it was not uncommon to wait 18 months for a non-urgent operation. That's unheard of now; it's rare that a target of 18 weeks is missed.

But Cameron has made clear that he'll use the BMA's lies about polyclinics as an excuse to cancel further investment and abolish targets which will see waiting times grow again. The Tories' vision for the NHS is as a safety net for the very poor, while Labour wants it to be so good nobody in their right mind would waste their money going private. The same goes for schools.

And there's plenty more to shout about.

When you talk of a Thatcher-Blair consensus you promote the myth that these gains would have occurred under a Conservative government. That is dangerous nonsense and gives people a reason not to vote.