Since when do I follow CCHQ?! Outrageous!

And yes, the Lib Dems were pushed out of C&N. Clegg is still not making any inroads into mainstream opinion.

LFaT - there are exceptions to every rule!

The Liberals lost out mainly because they couldn't excuse themselves from sacking their real candidate.

All sorts of aurtopsies will be going on and hitting each other with sticks will probably help.

Did Labour lose out because of the 'Toff' campaign? No.

Did the Liberals arive at third place, unexpectedly? No.

Did the Tories win a mid term by election because of a protest vote? Yes.

Labour members protest too and we were right all along.

Name one thing that the Tories will do if they win a General Election. Tory members can't answer this question. This is why they will not win in 2010 BUT Labour has to alter course as an insurance policy.

Invite John McDonnell to your CLP,as we did, and enjoy.

Gary

Bob,

You have been around long enough not to have the same excuse as some of the Tory ingenues that regularly haunt CiF. You know as well as I do that in the run up to the 1997 General Election, the Lib Dems got squeezed just as much in heavily Lab-Con contested by-elections and our demise was regularly being predicted as a result. In the event we, er, doubled our MPs.

I'm not suggesting we'll pull that off again in 2010. I'm saying we're in a strong position to do it within two Parliaments. If you are genuinely naive enough to think that is an impossibility (and I suspect that you aren't really), then I can only hope and pray the rest of your party is equally complacent. Heard it all before, mate.

James, I've also been around long enough to know that the Lib Dems can surge from third to first in by-elections. Brent East, for instance, so I don't think you can portray C & N as if it was automatically a straightforward Labour-Tory fight.

All I was questioning was the reasoning behind your assertion that you were in 'a strong position.' Had you pushed Labour in to 3rd place last night, I think you would have had a case, but as the 'Iraq factor' weakens, and with Cleggs ineffectual performance, I suspect if anything you will lose seats.

Not gloating, mate, I'm hardly in a position to do so.

There's no doubt that things are bad and that the Tories would win an election if it were held tomorrow... but it's not tomorrow.

Some of us remember the Monmouth by-election of 1991, which Labour took from the Tories in spectacular style only to lose the 1992 general election.

That doesn't mean Labour will win next time, but it does mean that we can.

The plight of the minor parties isn't getting the attention it deserves. UKIP and the like have disappeared all together and the Lib Dems would lose seats if an election was held tomorrow.

I exchanged some email banter with my local Lib Dem MP re them backing a minority Tory government (he reckons that story's made up, but he isn't at all close to Clegg), but the way the're going any negotiating will be with Plaid Cymru.

Not too sure about UKIP going AWOL.

Wherever the likes of UKIP and the BNP are, they weaken the resolve of the faithful to venture out and give support. No BNP=vote UKIP.

It's a mistake of the Party to ignore areas that require help to eradicate this local menace. As far as I can see, a little extra shove sees off Nazis and their UKIP affiliates.

I just feel it a mistake to ignore areas that may be needed to shore up the vote when crunch time comes.

I'm confident in the messages put out around here, but what the hell am I fighting Nazis for? People used to get VCs not long ago for doing this sort of stuff now all we get is a request to leave the scene of crime.

Maybe I'm missing something, but since when did a single constituency represent the entirety of the Commons' 646 seats?

The Lib Dems are consistently polling in the 20s, and coming just 5% behind Labour in the Guardian/ICM poll earlier this week. We also beat Labour on 1st May in terms of projected national share of the vote. The idea that Crewe is somehow a sign of terrible things to come for the Lib Dems is therefore patent bollocks.

Gee up, Gavin! Just unless you haven't been informed yet, er........the Liberals last had a say in anything around the time of the First World War!

Trust me,mate, it just didn't get any better for you there on in. Honest.

... and Gavin, if the general election turnout is 32% you'll do very well. But it won't be, and you won't.

Gary (and to a certain extent, Bob): Your point doesn't directly address the argument I made, as well as being factually inaccurate. We were in coalition with Labour in Scotland until last year and we control a substantial number of councils in Britain, either on our own or jointly with other parties. If you want to talk about our nadir, it was in 1957, when we had just five MPs and the party seemed close to extinction. We now hold the largest number of seats since the Second World War, we are constantly polling in the twenties, and we came just 5% behind Labour in the Guardian/ICM poll earlier this week. Is there some special evidence I'm missing here?

Oooooh get you, Gavin!

I spend all my time in Stoke denying Labour run the joint and everyone tells me the opposite! You on the other hand inform us that you run Britain through the backdoor. Bully for you. Be my guest, come up to Stoke and tell everyone you run this debacle. Please.

And in answer to your question: Which Century was it that the Liberals last run the Country?

I believe that it was the same Century that the Conservative Party last held power.

But they,like you, remain drunk with a minor victory here and there and they, like you, will be courted by any and all 24 hour news outlets, every hour, on the hour.

In the meantime, we will run the Country. It's the way it is.

Gary

"You on the other hand inform us that you run Britain through the backdoor"

Where do I say that?

"And in answer to your question: Which century was it that the Liberals last run the country?"

The last time the Liberals (not the Liberal Democrats, although the latter is successor to the former) formed a government at Westminster was in the 20th century. But how is this (historical) point evidence that in the future the Liberal Democrats will not make further gains from their current position? You also seem to be implying that the Conservatives won't form a central government after the next general election, which based on current polling and local elections over the last couple of years is highly unlikely.

"In the meantime, we will run the Country. It's the way it is."

I'm not denying that, however it won't always be the case.

Ah yes Gary but the taste of victory is sweet after 30 odd years of struggle