I trust you will be equally splenetic in your retrospective condemnation of the Irish and the Palestinians ,both enthusiastic supporters of the Nazis DURING THE WAR. Now let me see what drunken ,multiple bastard siring jew hating authoritarian can I think of who last dragged up this old hat . Oh yes....its old bye-bye isn`t it.

newmania... you're a prat. A complete prat, but why am I not surprised you want to defend a newspaper that sympathised with fascists.

Show us the link between the Palestinians and the Nazis or the Irish support for the Nazis, which is even more disgusting and insulting to the memory of the Irish who died fighting Hitler.

If your final comment is supposed to be aimed at Ken Livingstone, then you can hardly point to the cocaine-snorting Johnson as a model of either sexual fidelity or racial tolerance now, can you?

The shagging he gave Petronella Wyatt over FOUR YEARS and her subsequent abortion which resulted in Michael Howard sacking the fat fraud gives us a model you can look up to at least. And we won't go in to the picanninies with watermelon smiles again, will we.

Bob is correct in noting the Mail's murky past, but it would also be worth pointing and often forgotten fact; that is that Rothermere also owned the Mirror, which like the Mail, gave enthusiastic support to Mosley.

Now so what that the Mail supported Oswald Mosley 70 years ago? The Labour Party use to support socialism fewer years ago than that.

Bob I am far from being an expert although by your standards it would appear I am a wise sage. Irish causalities in the Second Worlds War were tiny; they were neutral .( Unless you mean N Ireland of course.)

Thanks is indeed owed to the 70,000 who crossed to help but not only was Ireland neutral but it provided havens for German U boats free to kill British servicemen and maintained the embassy of both the Nazis and the Japs . Churchill himself told Valera after the war that he was close to invading Irish treachery leaving him no choice. Perhaps you are unaware that there was at that time a large fascist movement in Ireland many of whom went to fight for Franco and the Irish Fascist movement actively supported Hitler of course. Now partly this was because they saw us as occupying their land ,(?). But the brave Ulstermen did indeed fly to the help of the country as they always have done . Apologies have been issued on Holocaust day for the anti-Semitism that lay behind some of their actions .( eg Justice Minister Michael McDowell 2003). It's a complex phase of history and I admit I am only a dabbler but there was certainly wide spread admiration of Hitler and a spontaneous outpouring of grief in Dublin when he died.

On the connections between the Nazis Jew haters and Arab Nationalist Jew haters , well it is all well documented but endlessly disagreed about and embedded in the Byzantine complexity of the regions powers struggles as you might imagine.. Look it up yourself .

In both these cases it would be simplistic and anachronistic to say these people supported Hitler in a way that makes sense today . Things were not known the threat of Communism infected everything in Ireland it was 'My enemies enemy '. Amongst other sometime allies of Hitler was the Zionist movement in Germany who joined forces to discourage integrationist Liberal Jews . So you can see such statements are meaningless 'neat'

I do not have the background to judge these people ..(although I have never seen much excuse for Valera really). I was making the point that yanking the Mail out of the 30s and plonking it undigested onto the table is misleading and historically arrogant . The left in this country continued to support Stalin and his heirs and apologise for Russias equally appalling carnage well into the 1970s and there are still some around today. I see far less excuse for that

Funny it did not occur to me that the IRA and the PLO are both old chums of Ken aren't they. No wonder the Jews love so very dearly...and any lefty dictator he can find.

Mosley almost became Labour leader and almost became Conservative leader. he gave up on both as not being idealistic enough.At that time, he was not a Nazi (as we know it to be today), he was merely, simplistic and idealistic with a route one approach to problems. It is no mistake of history to suggest he was 'brilliant'.Facts are facts.It was not just right wing in the 'usual suspects'league who supported Hitler or Moseley, in fact I would like someone to defend Ernie Bavan (NHS founder-Labour)as not being the principal supporter of either, on the left.Car builders of birmingham also funded him (Morris)and many noteables within the great and good.
Moseley took Mussolini's money and he (Mussolini) was certainly not a Nazi (Jew hater) as we have now come to know it, he was a simple Fascist who had the route one approach.He funded Moseley by the Millions with the only condition that he promoted fascism, publicly(uniforms, salute, marching and huge meetings).When that money began to dry up, Moseley turned to Hitlerists in Germany (foreign currency, in short supply).This part is greatly disputed, but Hitler funded Moseley under the conditions of anti-semitism. Moseley was forced to remove all jews from the BUF (up to 50%).During the war, Moseley was locked up, along with his wife, Lancaster bomber crews, spitfire pilots and all the rest.They were let out after no proof of collaboration found. Moseley always protested that he would have defended Britain with all he had from a foreign army. Moseley apologised in 1969 for the holocaust and what the Nazis did. He comitted himself to Euroean Fascism as he thought GB to be a no hoper.

Gary

Mosley's attitudes were rooted in his experience as a member of the landed gentry. His story is quite fascinating. He is referenced quite extensively in "The Decline and Fasll of the British Aristocracy" by David Cannadine, with whom I go out drinking.

Bob, did any British daily newspapers support Stalin's Soviet Russia despite his murderous purges, mass starvation in the Ukraine and the destruction of the Kulaks?

You tell me, snafu.... but if they did they would be bloody hypocritical to print a story slagging off someone else who supported Stalin and his purges without mentioning it, don't you think?

Why is it you always get so touchy about criticism of fascists, snafu... anything to tell us?

David Cannadine, with whom I go out drinking.

Keerrplonk. Just another typical working class day.( Didn't he play Kung Fu? ).

On Stalin ,most of the left now would call themselves Democratic Socialists which as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn pointed out, is a chimerical species as unlikely as 'boiling ice' and he would know .

The British Kulaks or petit bourgeoisie are to this day the class enemy of Labour. They are under attack through the tax education and immigration system. Record numbers are leaving the country to be replaced by immigrants stuffed into Heart-of-Flints Green-washed slums called eco-towns in the South. It is a civilised and bureaucratic sort of ethnic cleansing but that is what they are really up to. How else can Labour ever be elected in England ?

Few active important Labour Politicians openly acknowledge the Left link with authoritarianism brute class war. There is one shining exception though and his name is Ken Livingstone. I shall be travelling to London to do my bit to save the country form this domestic Mugabe..

He must be stopped in London, just as Mosley was.

Go Boris

Bob, I always get confused between socialism and fascism as they both seem quite similar to me. Fascists hate foreigners, socialists hate the wealthy and fascists.

History has shown that both groups can be as murderous as each other but you never find groups called "Unite against Socialism". Why not?

T-shirts with "CCCP" should be as socially unacceptable as those with swastikas.

Perhaps the BNP are hated as they compete for the same working class Labour vote...

Snafu... why am I not surprised?

In the realm of simplistic, stupid reasoning, I think you have just scored ten out of ten.

Errm... because fascists hate foreigners... socialists hate the wealthy (do they?) therefore, they must be the same. Are you being serious?

What if Conservatives hate socialists... does that also equate them with fascists?

How about if vegetarians hate meat... are they nazis, socialists, or conservatives?

For Christs sake, stupid, if you are going to present an argument, try and make it coherent, logical and vaguely interesting.

The bit above regarding Irish soldiers needs a further look. I understood it to be the case that Eire soldiers were formed into regiments in both wars, serving Queen(and Country?) and were looked down on afterwards.Wasn't it the Royal Irish regiment? (Royal?).maybe it was catholics from the North, which would make more sense.

Gary, as usual newmania gets it totally wrong. The old 'U-boats in Irish harbours' is an urban myth, and there was a fine tradition of Irish working class support for the International Brigades fighting against Franco.

Then he surprisingly reveals (I think this must be a newmania EXCLUSIVE) that.... Irish fascists supported Hitler. Well, knock me down with a feather!

Although Eamon de Valera did write a telegram of condolence to Admiral Doenitz...